ACT: Do they look at subscores?

Parents Forum
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<p>My daughter is a hs senior applying to Notre Dame. As per GPA, extracurriculars, recommendation letters and class rank, she is right up at the top of the top–#3 in a class of 142, sports, arts, offices, and the added bonus of being an ND legacy. Her brother is a sophomore there, but I don’t think that counts. His class rank wasn’t quite as high, but he can ace those standardized tests. </p>

<p>The only question mark still out there is that goofy ACT. She has now taken it 4 times (what a racket!), fourth was not a charm, I don’t think, although we’ll know for sure tomorrow. In Feb 06 her composite was a 26, in April it was a 29, in June it was a 31. She didn’t feel good about the September test, which she had to take a month early in another state because it conflicted with cross country district meet. </p>

<p>ND states its middle 50% range at 31-33, which she is, but we are really hoping for early action, as we’ll need that kind of lead time to scrape up money from somewhere besides bank robbery. (Her brother is Navy ROTC.) They state that, in early action, they are looking for upper range. Everything else about her is upper range, except that silly ACT.</p>

<p>My question is, does a university like ND look at subscores as much as they do composites? I know they cite composites for comparsion, but am hoping they look deeper. My daughter intends to major in the classics, philosophy or PLS (kind of a multi-disciplinary liberal arts education), and looks forward to the day when she no longer needs to take calculus. Her English score was a 35, her reading a 31–the latter one may have gone up this last time as she figured out the trick of reading for the ACT is not to really ponder what you are reading about, but pick through it to answer the questions. Her math was a 28, her science a 29. If she were going to be an engineer or math major, I’d think that was a problem. As it stands, she has no intention of going that direction, although she has taken the most challenging track in both subjects in high school…</p>

<p>In our home state, the magic number is 30 for merit scholarships to state schools, so obviously composite is the only thing that counts there.</p>

<p>The question is, are admissions counselors looking at it that way, or are they analyzing it further? To me, a 35 in English is a pretty good thing for someone going into liberal arts…</p>

<p>I’d appreciate any insights you have…</p>

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<p>i can sympathize with your concerns as i do it myself with kid #2, wanting the same as I did for kid #1.</p>

<p>nonetheless you need to let the test scores go. your daughter is easily top range and at that score level, gpa, the decision to admit will not depend upon pure statistical qualifications.
it will depend upon what the school sees as her future contribution to the community based upon ecs, essays and recs.
i would hope ND gives extra consideration to siblings attending similar to other schools.
as to whether they examine the subscores, best advice is to email admissions and get a reply from the source.</p>

<p>good luck and your D sounds like a great student.</p>

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<p>Thank you so much! She basically gave it one more shot that could be in before early decision deadline. We’ve told her we’re of the mindset that she just needs to put her best foot forward, and we think four times is plenty! She does, too, which is nice. </p>

<p>Definitely a much more dramatic experience with a daughter than a son. As are prom and homecoming, but at least picking a dress is fun…as opposed to this sitting in judgment thing! :)</p>

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<p>I’m no expert, but that’s never stopped me from replying to a CC thread, so here goes. :)</p>

<p>My son is a Freshman at Notre Dame (thank God!). His stats were very similar to your daughter’s - tied for first in his class of ~170, 4.0 GPA, outstanding essay, and recommendations that made him sound like he was on the shortlist for sainthood. His ACT composite was 33. He applied Regular Decision, though he certainly would have applied EA if he had been a legacy.</p>

<p>I think your daughter should apply EA. The legacy status should easily compensate for any perceived shortcoming in her standardized test scores. Doesn’t it seem obscene when we have to consider a 31 ACT “average”? :)</p>

<p>My other son is a Senior in high school this fall, and after returning from a visit to see his brother yesterday, he’s planning on applying to ND, too. His ACT is also 31, with a retake scheduled for October. He will also be applying RD. Nothing would make me happier than having both of my boys at Our Lady’s University!</p>

<p>Best of luck to you and your daughter.</p>

<p>Tony</p>

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<p>Best of luck to you and your son! My son is very happy in his second year at ND, and would love to have his sister join him…as would she!</p>

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<p>You might want to get hold of a recently published book called The Price of Admission. There’s a whole chapter in there on Notre Dame’s preference for legacies. I couldn’t tell from your original post whether it is ONLY her brother’s attendance that makes her a legacy or if there is a parent who attended as well. If the latter, she should be fine. I can’t recall the exact numbers but the average test scores of PARENTAL legacy students at ND are significantly below those of non-legacy students, and they actually reserve up to 25% of the freshman class slots for parental legacy applicants. Not as much preference given, however, to sibling-only legacies. Still, she sounds like a great kid, so she should have a solid shot. Good luck!</p>

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<p>Thanks, Carolyn. My daughter is a legacy, as I graduated from Notre Dame in 1984. Never was one of those who pushed it on my kids, preferring they chart their own direction. My son chose it, and is so happy there. Visiting him is what cinched it for her as well. We’d love to have them both up there–it’s the kind of place you can feel good about sending your kids… They really do care about them up there, and it pervades everything they do. We’re keeping our fingers crossed!</p>

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<p>My niece is also at ND & while it is an adjustment, she is becoming increasingly more comfortable there. It does sound like your D has a very good shot, especially if she applies ED. Good luck to her!</p>

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<p>DD,</p>

<p>There’s an article in today’s ND SMC Observer about Notre Dame’s intention to continue using Early Action in admissions. A few statistics caught my eye, notably that 47% of EA applicants were accepted, 22% were legacies, the average ACT score for EA acceptees was 32, and all applicants accepted EA were ranked in the top 3.7% of their class. An impressive group!</p>

<p>The stats and article are front and center on their website:</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.ndsmcobserver.com/[/url]”>http://www.ndsmcobserver.com/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Hope it helps.</p>

<p>Tony</p>