<p>how do newspapers know if you got a full score</p>
<p><a href=“Of%20course,%20I’m%20wrong,%20but%20that%20doesn’t%20mean%20it’s%20odd%20that%20I%20had%20an%20opinion.”>quote</a>
[/quote]
LOL kluge…</p>
<p>Laserbrother,</p>
<p>I wish curmudgeon was around to give you some insight. Unfortunately he’s off on his motorcycle trip now. I have no experience with the ACT, however I remember curmudgeon D did not score as well on the science section as she expected and thought the graphing section was unclear. Check the ACT threads; there are many students who report a similar experience with the science section. </p>
<p>Cur’s D did re-take the ACT in the fall and improved her science subscore to yield a composite 35. Many posters encouraged her to apply to a few reaches as a result. Curmudgeon has been on record as stating that her high scores on a nationally normed test validated her HS performance. Clearly Cur’s D is more than her scores, yet high scores were important as she was in the hunt for top merit scholarships.</p>
<p>As deceptacon points out, the ACT allows score choice and no one needs to know about a re-take. Posters have already shared how to keep the HS out of the loop in case they place all scores on her transcript.</p>
<p>Your daughter has already achieved great scores. So congratulations to her. But, if your daughter feels like she left some points on the table and would like to re-take, the only downside is time. Does her fall schedule allow for both an ACT re-take and her SAT IIs as planned? </p>
<p>I’ve posted before, but I’ll say it again. The decision to re-take should really reflect an applicant’s satisfaction with each aspect of the application.</p>
<p>LB
What schools fo you think would be a good “fit” for your D? What schools does she talk about?</p>
<p>lb, I’m sorry but your posts often drive me absolutely crazy. You were in the depths of despair because of a “not too bad” 760 on Math and a “terrible” slightly below 700 on CR. Now this. </p>
<p>For God’s sake, LEAVE HER ALONE. She’s done great. She can get good merit money to many fine schools. And if she gets into HYP then it will all be based on need anyway. Hug her, tell her your proud of her. Stop acting like she’s doomed.</p>
<p>But 3Ks, don’t forget that Curmudgeon’s D refused to take any SAT IIs because she was sick of testing. That made her ineligible for some schools, despiter her great accomplishments. And that was fine with them. She & he were quite rational about testing. Don’t leave dollars on the table, but at the same time, don’t let it consume your life.</p>
<p>^^StickerShock, you’re absolutely right. No doubt, Cur’s D was in the driver’s seat. I was just trying to add balance, that an applicant might have very good reasons to re-take despite initial high scores. Cur’s D was a strong science student and believed her scores were not an accurate reflection of her ability.</p>
<p>I was also careful to note that it was the applicant’s decision. I was trying to stay out of the parent/student tussle over who is controlling the decision.</p>
<p>I’m seventeen, and yet I agree with the OP more than most of the parents here. He’s not being a perfectionist; he’s asking for effort. If I were a parent, I’d be prouder to have a kid who scored a 20 with a lot of studying than a 30 with none. Innate talent is nice, but relying on that and refusing to study? That’s ridiculous. His daughter needs to let go of her hubris. It doesn’t sound like her decision not to study had anything to do with being satisfied with results. It sounds, rather, like she just thought she was too good for it. If I’m mistaken, well, I have a white flag… but that’s just what I’ve gathered from this thread.</p>
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<p>This made my skin crawl - saying someone did not do well with ‘only’ a 30. Yikes.</p>
<p>His daughter may have rebelled in response to lb’s pressure. Stranger things have happened.</p>
<p>It is now very clear. Those who have read many of my previous posts offer me real constructive tips in very kind way. Those who read only this thread mostly come shouting with their arms in the air.</p>
<p>I am a real person and I come here to seek constructive tips. I said the thing as I see it and all comparisons are made with the people I know of. When I said a 30 on science is low, I don’t mean it as comparing to the whole test taking population. However, with in the group of people I know, that is on the very bottom low side. </p>
<p>As to the pursuit of near perfect standard test scores, here are my reasons:</p>
<p>That DD is capable of getting near perfect scores
That DD loves to be the best and wants a high score
That a set of high score gives her confidences
That a set of high score improves her chance to get into good colleges
That a set of high score improves her chance to get merit money
That a degree from an elite college statistically offers better job/earnings
At last, that a set of high scores give me something to talk about (I am trying to be funny here)</p>
<p>DD is an all around excellent student who involves herself in sport, music, plus many academic and communities activities. I have a high expectation of her because she is capable.</p>
<p>To me, a person’s life is about the whole 80 – 90 years. One could have the best time in HS, get into a college that “fits” him/her, find a job that he/she “loves” and have an “enjoyable” life. I am raised in a totally different culture. Where one will scarify certain amount of “good” time in early part of life – that includes HS, college, and first 3 – 5 years of your job. That effort builds a strong foundation for a fulfilled and accomplished whole life. When I was in college, the department has a written policy prohibits any dating of any student. As a college student, your time and effort should be 100% into gaining knowledge. </p>
<p>Bottom line is that I can’t disclose everything about my family. I come in honest to seek advise about college admission process because my DD will be the first one from our family to do this. To all who willing to spend their time to say anything in this thread, I thank you for your kindness. It is your right to think I am wrong and it is my right to pick which way to go.</p>
<p>your daughter is fine! </p>
<p>if she has a composite in the 99%ile then she must have 32+. if she has a 35/36 thrown in there i’d be willing to be her NO STUDYING composite is probably 34+</p>
<p>keep in mind that a composite of 34 means less than 7 wrong on the entire test. also keep in mind that the ACT is not a perfect test–colleges know this–and therefore most use the ACT or SAT as a guide to see whether or not a studenty should fit in with the academic atmosphere on campus.</p>
<p>with your daugther’s high ACT score, perfect GPA, and stellar extracurriculars she shouldn’t have problems getting into really competitive colleges. no school has an average ACT close to 34 so she will be above the average applicant everywhere. i’ve even heard that once you attain 99%ile mark it all kinda goes into the same pile–meaning a perfect score doesn’t doesn’t really make your application that much more spectacular. </p>
<p>colleges are looking for strong students. a perfect score indicates a strong test taker. actually, a strong test taker for a specific test on one random saturday morning. your daughter’s perfect GPA is a much greater achievement than a near-perfect ACT score and colleges can and will recognize this.</p>
<p>with my 32, i received very attractive merit aid from every school i applied to. i had about a 3.9 GPA and was very active in extracurriculars. i have a job too.</p>
<p>also, i wrote a very extensive research paper about ivy league schools which included (to me at least) a very interesting section about the weight of an ivy degree on finding a high-paying job. my research showed that there was actually very little correlation between undergraduate institution and salary, meaning that a degree from a state school or a degree from harvard could land you a very good job. grad school degress, however, were different: a grad school degree from a prestigious school afforded recently graduated students more opportunities for higher paying jobs. </p>
<p>i recently got back from freshman orientation at my college and i would like to disagree with you about all effort going towards knowledge. college is about gaining independence and forming yourself as a complete individual–not just taking classes and getting grades and credits. a successful college student needs to know how to balance both her academic and social lives; after all, in the real world there is a lot more than just work or just grad school!</p>
<p>ultimately, your daugther will end up at a school that fits her well. she’s bound to get tons of merit aid and will definitely continue to succeed. if her biggest worry is getting “only” a 30 on the ACT, then I wish i were her!</p>
<p>congratulations to your daughter, and good luck with the rest of the college process…it’s definitely a long, exciting journey.</p>
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<p>This proposition seems questionable, since DD consistently resists doing what is demonstrably required for her to achieve near perfect scores.</p>
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<p>This is not really true in any sense. Perhaps a better point to make would be that there is some room for improvement there and if your dd did not study, it is possible that the score could improve. (though not a given. These tests can be funny. I studied more for my second SAT and got more than a 100 points lower, eek. Luckily my first time was a good score, not perfect obviously). </p>
<p>Here is the thing though. People do not like to feel boxed in, as if they are inadequate at running their own life. We are never really going to see it that way if something is presented like that to us, people just get defensive. This does not mean you should not offer advice. However if you are overly insistent that you were right and she was wrong about studying, it is likely to go the opposite way and she will want to test herself and you on this matter. It would probably be better if you try to give her more of a role this time - i.e. picking out the book she will use or offering (but not insisting) that one of her parents can help her on the weekend or whatever time she chooses. </p>
<p>I would avoid any version of “I told you so.” If your dd is driven to get the scores herself, then tell her “Good job, it turned out really well for a test you took with little experience” and then ask if she wants to take it again “now that you know what to study for.” BTW she may have been truly lost, studying for these tests can seem really overwhelming, like you can’t cram enough of it in and you’re just getting worse. That could be one reason she resisted studying even if she wanted to do better. These tests generally come with a “question and answer” service that show what you got wrong where - that may be a good tool for her to use. You could also broach the subject in a way that is less likely to produce defensive feelings by noting you understand how overwhelming it is and asking if she would like some suggestions or guidance.</p>
<p>My daughter tests very well, and got a 35 on her first try, no studying. When information came out from her school about the classes, I told her I was willing to pay for it if that’s what SHE wanted to do - she said no. I never mentioned it again because it was HER choice. My daughter also had excellent grades, class rank, ECs, recs, etc. Yea, she might have done better had she studied, but who cares about increasing your ACT score by one point so you can say you scored the highest? Now, if your daughter is certain she wants to major in a science-related field and really wants to impress a college, or increase her chances of a science-related scholarship, then she needs to make the effort to try again… she needs to meet with her guidance/college admissions counselor and make that decision. She needs to take initiative - you say she wants to do well on the test, but is disappointed with her 30 after not studying at all. Well guess what? If she was truly honest in saying she wants a higher science score, then she will do something about it… not you. I suspect that no matter how much you defend her best of intentions, she’s not putting her words into action, so how serious was she about it.</p>
<p>Now, if when she got her scores and was disappointed with the 30 on the science portion, and came to you and said, “This part was much more difficult than I imagined, but I know I can raise it if I study and take it again. Would you be willing to shell out some money for a class/tutor, etc.?” then I’d say take the bull by the horn and run with it. </p>
<p>My older daughter never took a class either, and scored well on standardized tests. I figured they’ve worked hard enough for eleven years in school - if they don’t want to put in any more effort, then they’ve paid their dues. As long as they’re not complaining about their results, then it’s fine with me. </p>
<p>When my daughters were high school seniors, I also did not force them to spend days and days filling out scholarship applications. They both received nice scholarships from their schools, that again, rewarded them for the hard work they’ve accomplished over a lifetime of education, not just one test. Also, I look at the money they saved me by taking AP tests and placing out of classes, and consider that scholarship money - so again, they worked hard throughout their schooling years to achieve what they did, and I was very proud of them for it. Whenever they got a test score back, I’d ask them, “Are you satisfied with it?” If they said yes, then it was a done deal… never to be brought up again. </p>
<p>I’m sure I’m not the first one to tell you that perfect scorerers/valedictorians/salutatorians/National Merit finalists get college rejections all the time. The process is soooo much more than a piece of paper that says how well they tested on one particular day.</p>
<p>Frankly, now that my older daughter has finished her junior year of college, I cannot think of one time that I have made grades an issue (and of course, she doesn’t have the GPA she did in high school, but it’s still respectable). My purpose for providing a college education for my kids is for them to gain skills for their life. If they choose not to take advantage of the opportunities given them, then come graduation day, they have to deal with the consequences. I guess what I’m saying is the offer we make our daughters to support them through college comes with no strings attached. It’s a once in a lifetime offer, and if they screw it up, then they have to fix it if they want it fixed. </p>
<p>If money is an issue, and that’s why she (or you) want a higher grade, I can guarantee you that there are schools out there right now that would give her a full ride based on her scores. It might not be the highest caliber of school she has her heart set on (it will be a good caliber), but there are always ways for students to challenge themselves in a less than rigorous environment (taking on research projects/double major/honors programs). </p>
<p>Also, if she has any aspirations of grad school, where she goes to undergrad won’t be nearly as important as the grad school. It’s the terminal degree that matters. </p>
<p>I say drop the matter unless she comes to you stating she definitely wants to take steps to raise the science score. If she’s such a good student now, then it might be wise for her to get a lesson of what it’s like to not be the big fish in the sea now, as opposed to later. Kids of this caliber usually have little competition at the high school level, but when they get to college, if they’ve never done less than average (for themselves) before, it can be traumatic. Let her learn her lessons now while the consequences aren’t so devastating.</p>
<p>laserbrother- I, for one, am tired of your trying to justify your obsession with your daughter’s scores. I have read your other threads and I continue to be horrified.
My son refused to prepare for any of the standardized tests. He simply thought it was stupid and he would rather read books or the Wall Street Journal/NY Times. His scores were adequate (not by your standards, of course) and he is at an Ivy League College (the pinacle of all dreams…NOT). He finds his school to be lacking in intellectualism and and not worth the tuition money. This year he is changing things for himself in order to improve his education (at the same school) and his experience. My point is- PLEASE get over this. If your goal is to make sure your daughter has access to the best education possible so that she can have the future she (and mainly you) desire, you are going to need to GREATLY increase your view of what is a “good” college.<br>
The ELEPHANT in the room in all your threads is the “P” word- PRESTIGE. Nothing will do for you but the big three, I suspect. You don’t give a s— about all the things your daughter should have in life, you want the “P” word! If that 30 in science (which my son thought was one of the hardest tests he had ever taken) messes that up, I suspect your D will be sitting for that test until that score comes up. Tell her to look up my son on facebook- he can set her straight and maybe take her out for a few beers the night before the test.</p>
<p>^ I agree. it is probably more healthy for this relationship for LB to ask more about the prom, NOT test scores! This kid will have some real issues if he doesn’t lighten up. Let her be a teenage girl. She needs to socialize and have fun. 
</p>
<p>“To me, a person’s life is about the whole 80 – 90 years. One could have the best time in HS, get into a college that “fits” him/her, find a job that he/she “loves” and have an “enjoyable” life. I am raised in a totally different culture. Where one will scarify certain amount of “good” time in early part of life – that includes HS, college, and first 3 – 5 years of your job. That effort builds a strong foundation for a fulfilled and accomplished whole life”</p>
<p>By your own admission (taken from your prior posts), you are miserable and UNfulfilled. Is THAT what you want for your daughter?</p>
<p>my dear laserbrother</p>
<p>I know you do love your daughter and want the best for her. You just have a different way of looking at things than some of us.</p>
<p>My son, who got into all 10 colleges he applied to, some with nice merit scholarships, got a 30 on the ACT science section. He couldn’t even finish it. His other scores were 35s and 36s. His composite was 34. He didn’t apply to any Ivies because none appealed to him, but every highly selective LAC he did apply to was very happy to accept him. I told him he didn’t need to retake this test or the SAT or his SAT IIs. Instead, he read books, magazines and newspapers, wrote a play, directed a play, acted in a play, sang at nursing homes, did his schoolwork, socialized with friends and got some sleep.</p>
<p>Your daughter sounds wonderful. I think she’ll be very successful in the admissions process. My advice to you would be to help her find a list of colleges that fit her well. She would be eligible for significant merit money if you don’t insist upon schools that don’t give merit aid such as HYP. There are lots of great colleges out there. The fact that you keep coming back to cc means you want our input. I think you actually do listen–it’s just that you are anxious for your daughter. Take a deep breath. She’s going to do well.</p>
<p>I have read, I’m ashamed to acknowledge, everyone of your threads about your D’s scores and academic accomplishments. (I’ll admit, I skip all your threads about money, as I can’t stomach the discussions of six figure savings accounts and which car, camera, whatever you should buy, sandwiched between a constant refrain of “it sucks to be poor”.) But this is it–it’s like watching a slow motion train wreck.</p>
<p>I am appalled that anyone here is reinforcing your attitudes to her scores and test taking. Many sane, intelligent people do not buy into the “you have to study to get the scores you’re ‘supposed’ to be capable of getting” school of thought. Why not show who you actually are on the tests, not who you can plump yourself up to be for one day? Neither of my kids studied for the SAT. They get very good scores and went to very good schools. They could have crammed and gotten better scores, but why? The scores they got represent who they are, not what someone (their parent?) wants them to be.</p>
<p>And that’s good enough.</p>
<p>The reason LB gets “raked through the coals” is because these threads always read like they’re the first time the topic has come up, when anyone who’s read them over and over knows that it’s the same old same old, every time. LB is not looking for insight–if he was, he wouldn’t raise the same question again and again, as if it hadn’t been done to death the last bunch of times. He will moan about her “low” score. Then we’ll find out the rest of the info (34 composite.) Most posters will say to lay off her, a minority will say to stop picking on him, he willl get defensive, and LBgirl will, again, get lost in the shuffle.</p>
<p>Your D sounds like a lovely, accomplished young woman who will achieve many good things in life. I wish her well.</p>
<p>garland, it is because I have not find a solution yet. </p>
<p>"Neither of my kids studied for the SAT. They get very good scores and went to very good schools. " You said. If my DD got very good scores and stand good chance to go to very good schools, I would not have spent one more second here. To me, you are like some of others robbing salt in my wound. </p>
<p>“Why not show who you actually are on the tests, not who you can plump yourself up to be for one day?” you said. Because we are competing with a lot of other kids who not only study, they enroll into classes to get that extra point. </p>
<p>“LBgirl will, again, get lost in the shuffle.” you said. Not true. I do always use points I learnt here in my conversation with DD.</p>
<p>As I always said, everything is relative. Going to a tier two U w/ some merit money will not be considered excellent here.</p>