ACT result is here and I am... ...

Parent Cafe
81

<p>Bethievt. Thanks for your comment.</p>

<p>Because of DD’s 8th grade SAT I score, we were very confident that she would have a great score. So we sent them to the universities she likes to apply. When we learnt of the sub bar score, we talked and DD promised to make an effort on this ACT. We made the mistake again by sending the score to all universities. </p>

<p>Now that all those school have two sets of scores, SAT I is bad and ACT is good except one important subject. Here is the dilemma. It will look like she is seeking perfection, as some suggested to be a negative, if she re-takes it. If she does not, the 30 score on science may hurt her chance at science related admission and/or merit money. </p>

<p>We used to receive tons of mailing from all sorts of universities and colleges. That has stopped after DD’s relative low SAT I score. Out of all the universities the scores were sent to, the state U is the only school sent DD a letter acknowledging the receiving of scores. Apparently test score does matter. </p>

<p>I kept coming back to CC, sometimes disclosing too much personal information and sometimes taking abuses, because I have no one else to talk about these. I want my children to have a better life than mine. I want them to go to a good university with a full ride just like so many kids of our relatives and colleagues do. I just don’t understand why some of the people are so negative and mean to a poor immigrant who is seeking an understanding of a very complex process.</p>

82

<p>LB–when I said my kids got good scores and went to good schools, they were not higher than your D’s scores. In many cases they were much lower.</p>

<p>My S’s SAT score was about equivalent to your D’s ACT. But let me tell you about his SAT 2’s: 760, 720, 640, 640. Or that he got 5’s on two AP’s, but a 2 (yes, a 2!) on another. Despite that, he is at an Ivy.</p>

<p>So, this is not rubbing salt in any wounds–your D has much greater standardized test results than my son. Her test scores are not the problem here.</p>

83

<p>The admissions process is complex and I had a lot of anxiety about it too. Your daughter might do better on the science section if she studies or might not. It sounds to me like there’s something about the way that sub-test is formatted that throws kids off. I think curmudgeon’s daughter worked on the graphing aspect of it to improve her score, but I could be wrong. The point is, though, that my son was accepted to top LACs with identical scores and similar stats overall. He didn’t get merit money at all of them–most tier I schools give little or no merit money.</p>

<p>I can’t remember what your daughter’s SAT I was that you consider “bad”. What would be considered good enough? It’s important to figure out whether your goal for her is even possible. What universities does she want to attend, are they affordable for you? Do they give merit $$ if you won’t qualify for need-based aid?</p>

84

<p>We may be going over and over this, but think of the positive, LB is doing his thinking about this issue here with us instead of going over and over it with his family or child, and stressing them out.</p>

<p>I think we have a cultural misunderstanding here. An immigrant says " I want to work hard, do my best, and teach my children to work hard, too." The Americans say “You’re putting her under too much pressure, it’s bad for relationships, just love her, let her find her own motivation.” The immigrant say “I do love her; I want her to have a better life.” Repeat as necessary.</p>

<p>The truth is, though, there’s this peculiarly American approach to working hard. We actually admire hard work, but only if it comes from internal motivation. That’s where the big emphasis on “passion” in college admissions comes from. We love genius and inspiration, and effort that springs from the soul. We are very suspicious of “grunt work”, “drones”, and anything that smacks of a lack of personality.</p>

<p>Of course this is a bit of a myth. Often the hardest work in a subject is right at the beginning while you’re still bad at it, way before a passion could possibly bloom. Face it, to develop a passion at all, you’ve got to be tough and work hard, and at moments it’s just not fun. At the end though, it’s always fun to be accomplished, competent, and able to use your skills and knowledge.</p>

<p>Laserbrother, if you want your daughter to be successful in America, she needs to learn this cultural attitude more that she needs a higher score. She need to learn how her efforts connect to her internal desires, and how to nuture her own motivations. She need to learn how to project this into her college essays. She needs to learn how to communicate the attitude “Yes, what I did was hard, but it also wasn’t hard because I loved the process.”</p>

85

<p>“…a poor immigrant …”</p>

<p>That won’t get you much sympathy from a lot of people. I’m not sure it is relevant. Just curious, how long have you been in this country?</p>

<p>If your daughter wants to adapt to this culture, she needs to do it on her own.</p>

<p>****I cross posted with geomom. I agree especially with her last paragraph.</p>

86

<p>:) Now we have something to work with.</p>

<p>Goal: Good school, full ride
Problem: very, very hard to accomplish.
Question: How far down the USNews rankings are you/daughter willing to consider as a good school?</p>

<p>Example: Penn State (ranked around 50) Full ride Braddock Scholarship this year (they give out ten to those admitted to Honors college and science college)</p>

<p>Student 1 : GPA 4.0
rank 2/183
SAT: 1550/1600
prestigious state summer program<br>
Rejected</p>

<p>Student 2: 4.23
1/120
1560/1600
Rejected</p>

<p>Student 3: 4.3
1.5%
1530
Accepted</p>

<p>So it wasn’t the scores; it was something else that won student #3 the award. Who knows.</p>

<p>My assumption is that you are interested in a higher ranked school. I just wanted to share these stats to show what happens at a school ranked lower than most people on this board are interested in.</p>

<p>There is that great thread on “how to get a full ride” that might come in handy but please know this is a pretty difficult accomplishment and like most awards some unknown variable comes into play that you will never know. There has also been a great deal of additional info. on these boards about outstanding students ( like your daughter) who did not receive full rides.</p>

<p>Does LBgirl know this is your ultimate goal? Is it also her goal?</p>

<p>Will your daughter have a say in which university she attends/applies to?</p>

<p>Good stuff geomom</p>

<p>To all: My POV: LB is a facts guy not a touchy/feely guy. Hit him with facts. He needs to “get it” for LBgirls sake.</p>

87

<p>I think there IS a lot of cultural differences stuff going on here. It makes more sense to focus on the goal and whether it’s attainable and how rather than hyper-focus on test scores. And ideally, it would be the daughter’s goal, not her parents’. That also is culturally a more American way to look at things. </p>

<p>I’m not sure op has said he needs full ride. I think he’s been saving for college expenses. It would help us to help you, laserbrother if you were clearer about the ultimate goal, yours and hers.</p>

88

<p>I too went and read some of your other threads.
You sound so sad with your life, discounting what you have and envying those who have more material things.
My dad, who is avery wise man, worked with very wealthy families and their trust fund kids. He said the only ones who were happy were the ones who found meaning and joy in things other than their money.
At the end of the day the truly wealthy man isn’t always the one with the most money.
My son’s friend prepared his whole life to get into the Ivy school of his dreams. He only did things that would look good on his resume. He studied long and hard for the SAT and ACT. He missed out on so many things in high school because of it.
He got to that school and realized that it wasn’t for him. He hated it and became severely depressed.
I make my comments not to be cruel but because I am very sad for you</p>

89

<p>Post # 81: “I want them to go to a good university with a full ride just like so many kids of our relatives and colleagues do.”</p>

<p>LB: You wrote this. Did you mean this? Is this your goal?</p>

90

<p>^ This from a guy who has paid cash for expensive cars, and very little debt, and a secure pension? </p>

<p>Maybe he does get the American “culture” after all! :rolleyes:</p>

91

<p>i thought in the op, lb asked for advice and input. (although i see it has been edited?) so, i can’t see any reason to be offended by the advice others have offered…you can’t always hear what you want…(my apologies to mick)</p>

<p>i personally found it strange that he had to break the news of the scores to his daughter. whose name was on the envelope? i thought it was strange that the act scores are SO disappointing. a perfect act score doesn’t guarantee anything, anywhere, anytime, anyway. didn’t care to ask any details of prom? or her date? and then lb wonders why we are quick to offer suggestions?</p>

<p>i think people are genuinely concerned about lb and his daughter. i think we are simply asking him to consider that the price he will pay for the pursuit of his daughter’s perfection might be costlier than he can measure in terms of dollars and cents. </p>

<p>she sounds like a delightful, talented girl. she scored very well on the act. she will have many great opportunities to explore. i expect her score will earn her significant merit awards. to the rest of us, that seems like a very enviable position. enjoy. </p>

<p>i really believed the op to be a ■■■■■. sadly, i was mistaken.</p>

92

<p>laserbrother… has anyone talked to you about the rankings of schools specific to certain programs? As mentioned earlier, my daughters are excellent students - on par with yours. They didn’t even consider applying to any of the ‘prestige’ schools. Why? Because the areas of study they were interested are not well-represented at these schools, i.e. D1 is studying public communications/public policy, with no intent to go to grad school at this point. Why even bother applying and sending her to an ivy league school that does not register on the ‘best of’ list for these programs, when she applied to several schools that are ranked in the top five in the country for this. She received several acceptances, and ended up at a school that fluctuates between #1 and #3 on the list of best colleges for communication, and with a substantial scholarship. When she graduates and interviews for jobs in her profession, and is up against the ivy league grad from a school where their communication program is hardly heard of, who will get the job?</p>

<p>However, all this being said, after rereading your posts on this forum, I’m ascertaining your values amongst your culture are more important than you are leading onto, because you reject almost every attempt for the ‘Americans’ (I’m assuming most people who post here are) make to answer your original question regarding how to approach this concern. Unless you specifiy exactly what culture you’re from and how it operates within its own context in issues of higher education, you will continue to experience frustration on this site because the majority of people here cannot relate to your values. </p>

<p>By the way, do you realize that your daughter’s chances of scholarship soar above most the posters here, only because she originates from a family of first generation immigrants; i.e. several very qualified students from our high school applied to Northwestern University. One white male (highest stats) was rejected. Second Asian male (lesser stats) was waitlisted. Third Hispanic female with the least stats of all, was accepted. </p>

<p>My point is, if you’re truly looking for advice, you will continually be frustrated unless you are willing to dispense the narrow, rigid views you have about the college admission/acceptance process. People have posted anecdote after anecdote here illustrating that it’s more than one test score, and if you continue to overemphasize this issue, you may overlook many other factors that play an even stronger role in her acceptances to certain schools, and may end up biting you in the butt in the end.</p>

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<p>I have also read your past threads, and based on the common message, I’m afraid you’ll never find … a solution. Actually, most people see that there is no need for any solution because there aren’t any problems, except for an amazingly misplaced set of expectations.</p>

<p>Laserbrother, I hope you’ll realize sooner than later that there is NO REASON whatsover to keep on comparing your daughter’s accomplishments to a number of people who are even more misguided than you are. In the past, you posted a link to an asian website where parents of superlative students tried to outduel one another. It would be funny if it was not so pathetic!</p>

<p>No matter how hard you’re trying to justify your actions and your positions, you won’t succeed to convince people who have gone through the process. In simple terms, you ARE setting yourself up for a major disappointment, and are taking a serious risk of losing your daughter’s respect in the process. </p>

<p>Being a scientist, you should be able to create a spreadsheet with attainable and reaslitic goals that includes mutually exclusive items. For instance, your conclusion that the objective of landing a “good college” AND “some” merit money is probably unrealistic in YOUR world considering that a good college probably means HYPS and none other, and that “some” merit money probably mean a full ride. My take is that your D will NEVER be able to gather enough to satisfy YOU because she will never be able to match the collective accomplishments of a bunch people who report them on an obscure internet site or at the neighborhood koffeeklash -more or less honestly! </p>

<p>I have little advice for you because you won’t want to hear it anyway, since you mostly seek validation of your decisions. In a few years, you’ll understand that, only a few days after graduation, grades and rankings become a blur. You’ll find out that only maniacs keep track of your “scoresheet” and list of college “trophies.” Applying to college is not an Olympic race where records are established nor is it a safari where the number and quality of hides is meant to impress the gullible neighbors.</p>

<p>For your sake and the sake of your family, STOP trying to micromanage the process in the way you have done so far. STOP measuring your D’s successess at the mailbox. </p>

<p>Colleges will be very interested in your daughter. Actually, they probably will bend over to land her admission acceptance. However, they will shun an overinvolved and delusional parent like the plague. Keep it up and you will end up ruining your version of the American Dream!</p>

94

<p>Well, if LB’s D does get into HYPS, LB will have to fork over the money. No more fancy cars! How sad.</p>

95

<p>

THis is very true. When the time comes to have contact with the admissions office, you MUST let your D make the calls, send the emails, etc. Please, please, please do not get directly involved. When you go on tours, let her ask questions. Try to take in the info silently. If you contact the admision office, do not give your D’s name. Ask general questions if you must call, rather than questions directly linking you to your daughter. I am serious. If you are overinvolved in the process, you will hinder the likelyhood of acceptance. And be prepared for the fact your D will have her own ideas about where she wants to apply. I am guessing that geographically, she will be eager to try and spread her wings and travel far.</p>

96

<p>Penn State- hahaha- as if this guy would let his daughter go to Penn State! That would be the ultimate disgrace.</p>

97

<p>I missed the part about free rides to top unis in post #81. Oh dear. So that doesn’t leve many options. Curm’s the free ride specialist, but “rare as hen’s teeth” comes to mind.</p>

98

<p>Full rides to the type of places <em>you</em> are talking about are need based, not merit based. From what I have read, you are simply not in the full ride financial need category, LB. Maybe those relatives or colleagues are telling you that their kid got a merit scholarship when it was really financial aid?</p>

99

<p>I’d like more clarity on the definition of “top universities” from OPs point of view. I think we all agree that his daughter would be in line for good merit aid at some fine schools (from MY pov) and probably free rides somewhere, but maybe not places LB considers “excellent” enough.</p>

100

<p>O.K. Here is the plan.</p>

<p>When DD got back from her mini vacation, I will 1st congratulating her on a super ACT score and tell her we love her very much. Then, I will give her the pros and cons of re-taking ACT, as well as how to keep score to ourselves. I will make sure it is 100% up to her to make the call.</p>

<p>The guide I gave DD on college goal is: get into the best school with the least out of pocket money and I did explain what is a need based and what is merit based. So, it is a balance act. I think DD picked out 10 schools from P to State U, with 8 of the 10 in top 30. We are willing and capable of paying our share per EFC for P but not as willing for that much for, say, Case Western. Penn State? NOT.</p>

<p>This will be my last post on this thread. Thank you all very much.</p>