Adolescent manners at church

Parent Cafe
21

“If there isn’t enough for everyone to get the amount they want, then there isn’t enough food.” Exactly. Figure out how to feed the teens (“even when polite they consume a lot.”) Partner with the bakery, make a big bowl of popcorn which will go far, pick up the huge bags of Chex mix at Costco.

We have overhauled our coffee hour in the last few years to move way beyond the standard sugar cookies in a tin and goldfish crackers, with all the older folks fussing at the youth. Now it is a lovely time of hospitality, we get the bakery items, there are always treats left from other functions in the church freezer for quick need, our deacons will make things like banana bread or bring in a coffee cake, and there is always a salty snack like pretzels or chex mix - and every week we wrap up things that weren’t eaten. There is enough for everyone, and no more griping.

22

@Consolation - your church has framed this issue as an “adolescent manners” issue, and certainly there is some of that going on. But attacking it from that angle is not ever going to solve the issue - the friction will continue. I suggest that the church reframe the issue, looking at it from two alternative angles - 1) Food - how can we make sure that everyone gets a satisfying amount and good selection, and 2) Intergenerational - I sense that there is a clear divide between the adolescents and the older members. The future of the church is held in intergenerational relationships and mutual respect for those of all ages. Are there ways your church can encourage different age groups to work together and interact, to lessen the “us” and “them” dynamic? We have worked hard at this as well, and it is not unusual for our teens to sit with the elderly folks during coffee hour!

I hope this helps, I have been intimately involved in church growth issues for the past several years, and have done a ton of reading about it, so I’m not just saying “let the kids eat the dang treats, for goodness sakes.” This is a very typical church challenge, and also an opportunity if the problem is reframed so it is not just a teen behavior issue.

23

Thanks, everyone, for sharing your perspectives. It has given me food for thought, no pun intended. :slight_smile:

Some reactions to suggestions:

We already have popcorn. Almost everything we serve is homemade. Some people try to bring things like cheese and vegetables with dip for those who can’t eat baked goods. On a recent Sunday I had provided several plates of crudites and dip. I saw one girl go up to a plate, and take ALL of the sliced orange peppers on it in one huge handful. All of them! I happened to be standing by it, since I was putting things out, and told her she should take one at a time. Her response? But I love the orangies! That same day I saw one boy eat 4 good-sized slices of homemade pound cake and at least 10 homemade cookies before most of the congregation had emerged from church. Their parents were standing there in a conversation and paid no attention. Kids often take a cup and fill it with cookies. They go off and eat them, and come back and fill up again. It really is crazy!

I think that the idea of having a separate teen table won’t work, because they will simply go and take whatever they want, anyway, and the room is crowded. We’re not going to forbid them to approach the main tables, and no one wants to be put in the position of being the mean old lady! We’ve tried having children’s snacks served on child-sized tables for little ones in the past, when some parents were upset that their kids had access to what they considered unhealthy foods, such as cookies. The kids still took the forbidden fruit. :slight_smile: Interestingly, the current teens are those very same children, ten or so years down the road.

I like the idea of involving them in providing the food occasionally. Perhaps that would help them understand. I also like the idea of involving them in putting the food out and being the “official tasters.” But frankly, their attitude seems to be such that they will just blow us off.

BTW, these are not the older HS kids. They have a separate weekly meeting time. These are mostly middle-schoolers.

24

@embracethemess, I cross-posted with you. (Dang that broken editing function!)

I think that you are right, this is the crux of the matter. There have been efforts made, but we need more.

25

I have been responsible for the treats – and sorry, I just don’t think there need to be enough for middle schoolers to completely pig out, at least until everyone has had a chance to get some. I think telling them they can have only one UNTIL others have had a chance seems fair – they can come back for more after the initial pass through is done. They still get some more, but don’t get to be thoughtless gluttons at the expense of others. No one is saying no treats for them, but this is a good time for them to learn to be thoughtful of others. Or eventually they become the adults who take huge mounds of the best stuff as first in line at a potluck.

Also, holding some treats back doesn’t help if they have no qualms about cleaning the trays off as soon as they are put out there. Again… have been in charge of this.

I do agree that the youth pastor/teacher should be brought into this discussion.

26

Ahhhh…middle schoolers. They are a breed unto themselves.

They have no idea that there are limited snacks. They think that the orange slices and the cookies come from some unlimited special pantry that never runs out. I bet they would be embarrassed to know that taking what they wanted meant others went without. They are so darn ego centric at this age. They just don’t see it.

They need to be told.

A sign on the tables might work. " If you take more than three treats there will not be enough for everyone." That should at least inform them.

Or you can have the youth group bake cookies for the event one time and figure out how many cookies they will need to bake for everyone to have two apiece.

Knuckleheads…

27

Yes, middle schoolers are older but still act like little kids much of the time. And they are bottomless pits when it comes to eating. At D’s middle/HS the middle school ASB is planning a dance and refreshments suggested so far are as much candy and cookies as the budget will allow.

In any case, at D’s church, youth are NOT ALLOWED to serve themselves until first guests, then elders, then adults get to go through the refreshment line. And the serving includes youth as well. The pastor reminds the congregation of this system every week. So you have a two-pronged approach to keep youth from stuffing their faces before anyone gets a first bite-they have to wait, AND they serve. It’s considered an honor to be a server. Sounds like this would be a sea change at the OP’s church, but I like how it works for D’s church. It also helps the servers learn to handle food and even cook, when they prepare a full meal on special occasions.

28

There are some good suggestions here. I like Sax’s idea to have them bake cookies, figure out how many they needm and then personally serve them. She is right that they just don’t see it. They are also in growth spurts, and are indeed hungry. Not to mention that this generation has been fed treats after every youth sporting event they have participated in, so it’s the norm for them to grab what is being offered. So in some ways your youth director is correct, but she also should not wash her hands of teaching them how to be a responsible part of a larger community.

It sounds like there might be a need to expand your resources so the small group of volunteers aren’t feeling so used and overtaxed. I think there is an opportunity for some kindly worded outreach to the MS parents, telling them how important it is for their kids to be in fellowship with the congregation, but we need help making sure there is enough food for everyone, especially the healthy snacks, so we are asking you to sign up to bring something for a few Sundays a year. Once they become engaged, they too will feel the issue of quantity.

Yes, generational divide is a huge church issue, and as I said, we have worked very hard at it - no easy task, but once you start to focus on it, the dynamic can shift and blessings abound. We started by having a youth representative on each of our boards, so their voices were heard and they had a vote in church matters as well. The young woman who was appointed to Deacons loved it so much, and did such a great job, that the church elected her to a 3-year adult term. Once this message of inclusion comes down from the top, the rest begins to follow. It can happen with small shifts of attitude - for example, you have an opportunity now to make a connection with the girl who grabbed the peppers. Next time you make crudite, cut an extra orange pepper and put a cup aside just for her - then hand them to her and tell her you remembered how much she likes them! This will make her feel that she matters to you, and then you have a better opportunity to “teach” her to not grab all that have been put out. It’s a choice - we can wring our hands, or we can find a way to engage and meet them where they are.

29

You’ve gotten some great ideas here. It sounds to me like one of the problems is that the teens arrive hungry and grab food to make sure they can get enough, making the rest of the congregation feel they have to fight for their. It’s not a comfortable position to be put in and I’m not surprised it’s leading to resentment.

Here’s my addition to your list of suggestions.
Provide a tray of bagels and cream cheese for the youth group to have as they enter their worship. In my experience (and your YG may work differently, making this idea unworkable) teen groups are run much more loosely than adult worship and eating while talking would be possible. Make them responsible for cleaning up any mess. Mention the possibility of vermin if they don’t and it will get done.

These young teens are probably being hauled sleepy-eyed out of bed and skipping breakfast. By the time they arrive in the parish hall they’re ravenous. It will be easier to ask kids with full bellies not to bogart all the cookies or to help pass items around.

30

Did I miss something? Maybe my church is different, but why are the kids out in the hall before the service ends? Are they not attending the service with their parents? In our church the pastor would make an announcement at the end of the service about the “problem”–reminding the kids to be considerate of others, and telling them to limit themselves to two cookies each. And they would obey the pastor.
(In our church we had a problem with very young children 2-6yos–and there are a lot of of them in our traditional Catholic church-- grabbing up and wasting donuts–taking a couple bites and leaving the rest. Then there weren’t enough to go around.
So they started to cut the donuts in half, and that solved the problem. At potlucks we have an “adults first” rule.)

31

" I saw one girl go up to a plate, and take ALL of the sliced orange peppers on it in one huge handful. All of them! I happened to be standing by it, since I was putting things out, and told her she should take one at a time. Her response? But I love the orangies! That same day I saw one boy eat 4 good-sized slices of homemade pound cake and at least 10 homemade cookies before most of the congregation had emerged from church. Their parents were standing there in a conversation and paid no attention. Kids often take a cup and fill it with cookies. They go off and eat them, and come back and fill up again. It really is crazy"

Those aren’t teens - those are starving wolves!

32

Well, it can be near lunchtime. You could ask the pastor to provide a gentle reminder to parents to keep an eye on their kids (when the parents are present) to make sure everyone gets to partake of the snacks.

33

Solutions are probably “church-centric”, ie. what works for one church won’t necessarily work for another church. I would bring the problem to the attention of the church staff member or church council representative that is responsible for this area. In general, there needs to talk around “hospitality” and about the purpose of this fellowship time.

I agree with some posters that a teen snack area (away from the general church area) might be needed. At the last church I served, we had boxes of donuts delivered straight to the youth room every Sunday. The kids got to grab donuts, coffee and juice before their lessons (which was before the church service). They still grabbed snacks from the general fellowship tables, but it usually wasn’t as big of a problem.

AND the kids were all expected to bring $1 for the donut fund. Visitors got free donuts.

34

I haven’t read every answer and have hesitated answering because some of the ones I’ve read irritated me. lol

OP says, “The Religious Education Director is dismissive and not only describes the behavior as ‘age appropriate’ but actively criticizes anyone who says anything.” Is this a paid position? If so, I’d have her “boss” have a talk and explain that while, yes, middle-schoolers can be selfish pigs, that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try to curtail that behavior and not teach them the social norms in polite company. Why are people seemingly afraid to tell these kids to stop being rude?

At Scout functions, the rule was that guests eat first. There always was plenty for the Scouts after the adults went through the line. Kids can survive a little delayed gratification.

Feeling really curmudgeonly on this, but, really, people (a lot them on here) complain about millennials and youth and how screwed up they are. Well, they don’t lick this stuff up off the floor. Though it sounds like some of the kids in the OP might! =))

35

RE… I know where you are, Consolation. :slight_smile: Confrontation isn’t going to be a big thing… but being a good community member sure is. I think I’d bring it up to the minister, and see if she can talk to the RE director.

36

Perhaps the volunteers could keep some of the “good stuff” aside until everyone begins to arrive?

It is great to have volunteers, but sometimes they can become very territorial over their area. If you are putting out food for the congregation, you have to expect that they will eat it.

37

As a veteran from the last church I belonged to of doing coffee hour, I can kind of understand what the OP was saying. There are probably as many solutions as there are churches, and I think that the key will be tempering the young un behavior but not turning them off from church, which many kids quite honestly see as something their parents drag them to, rather than something they want to go to (ever wonder why when kids get older, they disappear? Nothing like some old biddy lecturing them on proper etiquette.

Based on my war wounds, couple of suggestions:

1)I like what someone else said, having food for the kids. If you can afford it, maybe have a seperate ministry from the coffee hour that would provide stuff for the younger kids (HS age kids , at least in the church I was in, were in the main service). Bagels and cream cheese, or fruit and yogurt, something along those lines, will help defray, as others said, the kid getting up early, probably missing breakfast, and then going to church. Plus if they are full from that, they won’t grab the snacks as much.

2)If you want to get older kids involved, have an older kid (late teens) who is attached to the coffee hour ministry, whose prime duty besides helping out will be to (gently) monitor the younger kids. Not perfect, but it might work better than an ‘adult’ lecturing them.

3)The head of religious education should be told by the minister/priest (whatever kind of church it is, ‘da boss’) to tell the kids to be careful with chowing down in coffee hour. More importantly, why not hold the younger kids until the service is done?

I tend to agree with others, that the way you do this is important. I know a lot of people who won’t go near a church, because as kids they were treated as an annoyance or worse (not just churches, there was a local UU place where the membership were these older, well off people, who treated kids as this thing to be shuffled off on the side and hidden away, because they I guess annoyed the adults…to the point that the kids were not let out until after coffee hour had finished, like putting them in jail…I hear that federation is withering away on the vine, not a big surprise). One of the things churches face these days is many of them are seriously graying, and one of the reasons is many young people don’t view church as an obligation they ‘have to do’ as an adult, and more than few have bad memories of the way they were treated, and won’t even think of setting foot in a church of any kind. I did outreach for a pretty liberal church to try and attrat memebrs, and some of the stories I heard about why young people in their 20’s and 30’s didn’t want to belong to a church were sad.

38

As much of that is due to old-fogeyism tendencies among folks as they get into adulthood and moreso…into the middle-aged/senior years and forgot what it was like having older adults giving them the “get off my lawn” treatment when they were kids/adolescents.

In the process…forgetting they are repeating the very same generational cycle which has been in existence long before Plato wrote a famous quote attributed to Socrates on this very theme.

If the younger folks feel they are being singled out for any purported bad behavior…especially if manifestations of the same behavior is ignored for older adults, this will also highlight a feeling of hypocrisy among church leaders/adults which tends to be another factor in leaving churches upon reaching late teen years/adulthood.

39

Consolation: Sounds exactly like the problem in our UU church. Couple of changes that helped–RE director discussed good manners in church with kids and parents, RE kids dismissed 10 minutes after service ends, RE parents and kids take turns at a snack table for kids. Kids still take food from adults but problems are really limited.

40

This is a perfect example of why “It takes a village” and the church members need to play a role.

I would tell the kids that they are welcome to some treats, but not until the congregation starts arriving after the service. When church members witness the grabbing of the food, their disapproving looks should send a message.

If they have no food to eat at home, then the youth pastor needs to get involved. I think it is more likely that they didn’t get up in time to eat and as a result they are starving. If the treats are not available to them, then they might learn there is a consequence of lazily skipping breakfast.

I don’t understand why the kids are in the church and not in the service. Could it be that the parents have dropped them off at the door because during confirmation age the kids are required to attend and summarize the sermon. Then the parents return to collect the little darlings.

I agree that we need to make everyone feel welcome in our houses of worship, but I believe we are doing a disservice to the kids by not teaching them appropriate behavior.