Guessing that the kids are at RE (religious education) during the latter half of the service. That is how our church does it – kids are there for the first 10 minutes or so, then are excused to the RE classrooms.
@intparent is correct. They’ve recently started a practice of having the younger kids in RE classes come downstairs and join their parents in church for the benediction/postlude. But this doesn’t include this particular age group, who are turned loose in the Parish House to ravage the food tables for 5 or 10 minutes, LOL.
Well there’s your problem, it’s scheduling - as long as those kids are released into the Parish House and not given something to do during that 5-10 minute time frame, there will be friction around the congregational food table. Change the schedule, give them a role in set-up, or provide a light breakfast for them in their classroom. The church schedule has created a context that really fuels all those middle school tendencies and in turn, that group is being disparaged for their behaviors instead of being welcomed as an important part of the community.
In my church, kids of all ages are hugely important to our ministries and congregational life. I can’t ever imagine telling them they have to eat last at every meal, or consider it a problem that pre-schoolers left behind too many unfinished donuts. (Cutting treats into smaller pieces works well for all age groups!) But we are a smallish church; the dynamic in a larger church with a thriving family demographic may need more structure.
Rescheduling does sound like it could help with the issue, but I still think that teaching them basic manners would be a kindness to them, not a punishment.
Yes, scheduling seems to be the problem. If the Religious Ed Director insists on letting them out 5 - 10 minutes before the congregation, then the middle schoolers should become part of the refreshments set-up crew. How nice if they could learn to greet the congregation as they come in (“Why, hello, Mrs. Smith! Would you like some coffee?”), and maybe establish some connections with the older folks.
Let loose a pack of self-absorbed middle schoolers (which they are developmentally) into a room filled with goodies, and the thought of the rest of the congregation out of sight means out of mind. It probably doesn’t occur to most of them that there are many other people to share those goodies.
My church is affiliated with a K-8 school across the street, so there are always lots of kids at the coffee ands. We always let the kids go first - then replenish as needed. A few volunteers stand at the table to make sure the children act respectfully, but they rarely have to say anything because the kids know the routine.
It sounds like the OP needs more food to have additional on hand to replenish as needed. If volunteers are providing homemade goodies, I doubt it’s a problem to ask for a little more from each, or try to get additional people to contribute - our biggest concern is always having enough food because we know that the kids are hungry that time of morning.
Kids that age are always starving, and most adults can certainly wait a few minutes. Remember that adults can usually eat whenever they want, but most children have their eating schedules somewhat dictated by parents, teachers, etc., so of course they are even more enthusiastic about a table full of goodies.
But then I get great pleasure from feeding children. I’d much rather watch a growing 13 year old eat a bagel and cookies than an overweight 50 year old who really doesn’t need it:)
Our church unleashes everyone at once on the fellowship hall, which somewhat solves the problem, but we also have gracious signs up because the youth certainly get there faster… These signs say things like “Start with one. When everyone has had one, come back for seconds” or “One per person, please.” This seems to work for us.
And as a former Sunday school director, and current teacher, I have to say that the larger issue doesn’t really have anything to do with food. It’s about humility. These kids should be learning that their needs don’t come first and that they have to balance them against the needs of the other people in their church. Their leaders can frame it as, “Would you knock over a person in a walker to get to the donuts first? Because that is what you are doing when you grab all the food before the older adults get there.”
And the adults shouldn’t be getting into an “us vs them” mindset. They should be saying, “Hey, these middle schoolers are actually coming to CHURCH on Sunday. How can we make them feel welcome while still giving them good guidance in how to respect others?”
How your church solves this is going to depend on how open the adults are to change. Maybe the kids could sign up to be on the coffee hour team and actually prepare and set out the snacks themselves. Or instead of having the same parish hall hosts each week, the various ministries in your church could take turns being the hospitality hosts and include the kids in this. They should be learning to serve others in their own church, not just on a missions trip to Costa Rica. They should also know that service isn’t just “glamorous” jobs like being an altar girl, but includes wiping tables and sweeping floors. Theologically speaking, these tasks are all acceptable to God and one is not more important than any other.
^^^ I want to like this 1,000 times. :x
I would do away with the food. Nobody’s going to starve. Problem solved.
Or, just have coffee and soda.
That way you can socialize (I don’t get needing food to provide a catalyst for socialization, but it’s the reality), and nobody’s angry that the teenager’s eating an entire pound cake.
FWIW, I’ve fed bunches of teenagers. I’ve seen one boy take and eat an entire pizza. They are governed by their stomachs. While I’ve taught my kids to be polite and appropriate around food, and to understand the social constructs associated with food for their culture (wasp’y, for lack of a better definition), I don’t force my manners or culture on other people with regards to food.
So, either put out a boatload and don’t judge, or don’t do it at all.
And save a few good cookies for the pastor.
“Feeling really curmudgeonly on this, but, really, people (a lot them on here) complain about millennials and youth and how screwed up they are.”
Some of that, too, I belong to some model train forums, and when you talk about kids and the need to promote the hobby, you get these tirades about how bad kids are these days, parents don’t ‘control’ the kids and so forth, when a lot of it is a bunch of old grouches who don’t want to be bothered. My generation were supposed to be a bunch of mindless idiots raised on stupid tv shows (or violent homocidal maniacs because of cartoons like Bugs Bunny and the Road Runner), and somehow that didn’t happen:).
As it said in Bye Bye Birdy “Kids, what’s the matter with kids these days”. Or as another quote put it (paraphrased)
“The youth of today bode the end of our civilization. They are indolent and lazy, they respect neither their elders or long held traditions, and don’t care about the divine nature of things, they only care about themselves and their idol pursuits”- 3-4000 year old inscription written in ancient Babylon.
I respectfully disagree. Either we are talking about children, who can and should learn manners or we are talking about animals. (no offense to animals). As Massmom said, “Would you knock over a person in a walker to get to the donuts first? Because that is what you are doing when you grab all the food before the older adults get there.” I would be horrified if my kids acted like gluttons and behaved like ill-bred oafs. They would be making muffins and bringing them to church the next week.
We had the problem that the young people were running to fellowship before everyone else and it really bothered the hospitality folks (understandably). We had a discussion with the kids about their role as members of a community and why their behavior might be problematic for some. Here are some of the ideas that we came up with (and some solutions.) Note that we expected them to make up the rules, not us:
- They eat all the food. (take only one.)
- Younger kids emulate them. Younger kids with food allergies! (wait until your parent arrives at fellowship and make sure that whatever you're taking is okay with them.)
- You are perceived as rude. (offer to help with food service and clean-up.)
- You run over someone who has mobility challenges. (Walk to fellowship with such a person and chat with them.)
There were people (including adults) who didn’t feel this was a problem, and there were others who did, so we also used it as an opportunity to talk about how not everything has a “right and wrong” answer and that there’re are many truths. One of the important things that we do as “peacemakers” is to try and hear those truths. Shockingly, perhaps, this worked! (Although we sometimes review!)
I agree with you that children can and should learn manners. Is the food being set out as a teachable moment, or as food? I think you have to have a consensus about what’s really going on at the church-what’s the real point of the food?
I think some people are thinking it’s chow time, and some people are thinking it’s social time, and some people are thinking it’s etiquette time. Either the expectations are not clear, are not being agreed with, or there’s some heavy-duty passive-aggressiveness going on with the administration.
And there’s a Venn Diagram of unhappiness right there.
I haven’t been to church in over thirty years but I find the discussion fascinating as it undoubtedly occurred then as well. Some kids will always take a disproportionate amount of what they should. They’ll eventually grow out of it and another will come along in their place. Lather, rinse, repeat.
Church is unpleasant enough for kids* that it’s counter-productive to disallow them the one thing they might actually enjoy. As an adult, I expect kids to act like this even if it annoys/inconveniences me. As a practical matter, with church attendance declining by something like 1-2% every year, is worrying about 5-6 cookies or a greedy handful of pepper slices a prudent strategy? Rome’s burning and you’re handing out fiddles?
*where I grew up, I’d suggest almost 100% of the males were forced to attend. Anecdotally, this seems less true for females but I don’t know if I’m correct as the most strident atheist I know is female and went to the church my mom trundled me off to on Sunday. I know in the Phillipines it’s widely assumed that church is a woman’s thing.
Why are we talking about the Philippines? Good lord, let’s stay on topic.
I have noticed this dynamic in some churches/neighborhoods as well. Attending church is seen by some…especially males as something parents…especially mothers coerce kids…especially boys into. One easy way this was illustrated was hearing complaints from religious neighbors from my old NYC neighborhood or a few HS classmates’ parents about their sons/nephews refusing to attend church/synagogue once they hit their late teens…especially 18+.
However, this isn’t universal and varies greatly depending on region of the US, individual church/area, etc.
For instance, my Mississippi cousins were considered the odd men out for not regularly attending church* as practically everyone in their area of Mississippi attends church…nearly always a variant of Southern Baptist and/or Fundamentalist Evangelical denomination. This was one of the factors in why one moved out of the area to a major urban Mid-Atlantic city and another travels a lot and socializes mainly with friends outside of his home region.
- Neither are religious and only attend on social occasions such as weddings during their HS teen years.
I think these kids are UUs – the youth I have known at UU churches don’t seem to see attending as a chore for the most part, and I know few UU parents who make their kids attend. It seems perfectly in keeping with UU values to help these kids think about the impact of their behavior on the rest of the community. Seems to me that the RE leader is out of line.
When I serve a buffet to a group of mixed ages, as I often do, I always have the children go first. They’re always the hungriest and they need more food more often than most adults. They’re growing. Does that mean they should hog all the food and leave nothing left for everyone else? A plate only holds so much, so it’s really not possible, and I make sure that I have enough for the number of people I’ve invited. If I miscalculate and run short on something, my husband or I will go without that particular dish. Everyone around here seems to do the same thing.
I agree with intparent in post #56.
Also, it seems that just keeping the kids in RE a little longer would eliminate a lot of the problem.
Church is a community with community values. It is important to let kids know that they are valued members of the community but also that being part of a community involves mutual respect and cooperation. It is a much bigger issue than just “eating all the food.” Kids need to be taught to think of others and “do unto others as you would have them do unto you.” It is the basis of civilisation. So, use this issue as a teachable moment for all of the congregation. Brainstorm with several involved groups (the staff, the youth group, the volunteers) to come up with possible solutions.
And, as a pastor, if someone comes with me with a complaint, I expect them to also present a possible solution to me, and be part of the process to solve the complaint. Again, it’s about being part of a community.