No matter the religious origins for Christmas, so many treat it as a family holiday. The only talk we might do about Jesus is from the Unitarian perspective. In my own maternal line, Epiphany (Jan 6) was the bigger deal to my older relatives, the great grandparents who immigrated and (some of) their kids. For us now, Thanksgiving is actually the more traditionally significant day.
I wish I could agree with you, pg. We are liberal Episcopalians, but I find it difficult to refer to myself as a “Christian” because so many people do associate that with conservative, fundamentalists.
As a child growing up in NYC, we would see the tree in Rockefeller Center and the store window displays. I would go see my neighbor’s Christmas tree. But I knew that Christmas was not my holiday and we didn’t celebrate it in any way. In fact, well before cable tv, internet, etc. Christmas was the most boring day of the year if you were Jewish.
My children were raised similarly. I had no problem if they helped friends decorate, etc., but they knew it wasn’t their holiday and they were accepting of that. Going to the movies and having Chinese food for dinner became our Christmas ritual. S1 once asked a restaurant why they didn’t have a menorah since they had a Christmas tree. I think the hostess was too astounded to answer.
You can appreciate other people’s customs and traditions without adopting them as your own.
Of course Christmas a religious holiday. There are secular traditions thrown in, but that doesn’t make it any less of a religious holiday. To many people it’s very much a celebration of the birth of Christ, the journey of the Wise Men, and the three gifts given in the manger.
We are jewish but xmas has been a traditional family day because it happens to be the birthday of one of the family members. If there is an interfaith marriage and they are pulled in a different direction, well we will have to hope that at some point they’ll celebrate in their home and we’ll be able to go and have a double celebration.
Am also in the south, and except for interfaith families, I have never, ever seen a xmas tree in any jewish household. Have heard it was not uncommon a generation or so ago, but now, if it occurs, I havent seen it.
@prefect To me, ultimately Christmas is about celebrating the birth of Christ and accepting him as the messiah. Since that is not my belief, I would feel that I am compromising both the meaning of the holiday and my own personal believes to celebrate on Christmas Day. To me there is a distinction between the lead up to Christmas Day and the actual day of Christmas. I guess it has to do with church services being available on Christmas Eve and Christmas Day.
So I have attended lots of Christmas parties given by Christian friends-- but they have always taken on a secular tone–more like holiday parties celebrating the season of Christmas and Hanukkah.
Even muslims observe the birth of Christ. Jesus is recognized as a prophet. It’s just that muslims don’t recognize him as THE prophet.
“Am also in the south, and except for interfaith families, I have never, ever seen a xmas tree in any jewish household.”
I’m in the NE and don’t know any Jewish households who have Xmas trees either.
As for Hanukkah parties, remember that Hanukkah is a minor holiday without synagogue services that celebrates a miracle in which oil in the temple allowed the eternal light to burn for 8 nights rather than 1 or 2. The city was under siege, oil could not be obtained and the eternal light could not burn without a miracle.
So, yes I’ve hosted Hanukkah parties, and invited people of different regions, but the party is hardly religious and more a celebration of the possibility of miracles and the victory of the underdog.
Our first stop in the US was some where in the Midwest, so we thought in order for us to adopt to our new country’s custom was to celebrate Christmas. If we had landed in Long Island, we probably would be celebrating Chanukah now.
“Of course Christmas a religious holiday. There are secular traditions thrown in, but that doesn’t make it any less of a religious holiday. To many people it’s very much a celebration of the birth of Christ, the journey of the Wise Men, and the three gifts given in the manger.”
It may have started as a religious holiday only, but there are most definitely two different holidays. My family celebrated Christmas growing up, but we didn’t belong to a church, we didn’t go to services, it was a time to get together with family and friends. My parents would have friends over, both Jewish and non Jewish, it simply was a time of the year to be thankful for friends and such, a lot of people celebrate it that. The other thing to keep in mind it is a season, a holiday season, that encompasses multiple faiths and traditions (December 25th is also celebrated by some pagans as the birthday of Mithrais, it is in the middle of the old Saturnalia, it is near the winter solstice). For a lot of people, it has very little to nothing to do with celebrating Jesus. The hardcore Christians, the idiots who get their nose bent out of joint because a store or tv stations says “Seasons Greetings” instead of “Merry Christmas”, will beg to differ, claiming it is ‘theirs’, but the reality is that the religious aspects have in many ways been swamped by the secular things of the season (just think of the people who love going out Black Friday at midnight, or even shop on Thanksgiving).
I am not saying that Jews should celebrate Christmas and I can understand what they are saying about it. What I was trying to say is that if someone invites you over for Christmas dinner, they may not be doing so as a religious thing, the way Rosh Hoshannah is a religious holiday, The Christmas they are inviting someone over for is probably more like New Years day or Thanksgiving day (which was once a solemn religious holiday, a predominantly Christian one, now it is about Turkey and Football). Unlike Rosh Hoshannah, they likely would not sign hymns or pray or whatnot, at many of the Christmas day celebrations you would be hard pressed to find much religious there shrug. I am just saying that if someone invites you over for Christmas day, it likely is simply as a friend to enjoy the food and company, not to come celebrate a religious ritual. I respect why someone may not be comfortable or not want to, just saying to a lot of people Christmas is secular, not religious.
Dh and I are lapsed Catholics. Our three sons attended parochial school for elementary and for one through middle school. None of the three are religious at all and mds claims to be atheist. We don’t discuss it. He married a Buddhist. We love her, we accept her. All that said…I’m starting to have the slightest twinge of discomfort that any grands from them will not be Baptized. It’s their choice, of course, but…all Christians here will understand.
Oh, and our DIL is Asian, so it’s both race and religion.
@musicprnt At my house, there is absolutely nothing religious taking place at our holiday dinner for rosh hashanah. There are traditional Jewish foods, but no prayers, hymns, etc. But yet a non-Jew would probably be aware of the Jewishness of the gathering and would feel like “the other.”
That is what I would feel like at a Christmas dinner. Because a meal that might include ham, bacon or seafood, would seem “non-Jewish” to me. And if it made me feel different than the other guests, in the end, I would be very conscious of my Jewishness and might feel awkward being there.
But because you have a different background than I do as a NYer raised as a conservative Jew, you would be unaware of my perception of the meal, and how it would probably strike me as “very Christian.” And under normal circumstances it would be totally OK, but that on Christmas Day it would have more significance.
I am one of four daughters. Three of us married guys who wer raised Catholic. One actually converted, and is a practicing Catholic. We all have kids.
The grandparents never said a peep.
honestly, if your son chooses to raise his children as Christians…so be it. My bet is you will be invited to Christenings and other ceremonies associated with that faith. Those are special too…as special as a Bat Mitzvah. I hope you will graciously attend.
Uschoolfish,
All Jewish holidays at my home or friends include prayers. We may have 6+ menorahs at hannukah , so everyone, especially the kids, have a chance to light candles. There are always non Jews present, often the same close friends every year.
When invited to friends home for Xmas, there is always food I can eat. I don’t see a difference between this night or any other. Then again, no one is saying prayers.
My husband’s aunt wrote a book about her experiences growing up Jewish. She recounts that she was taught by older relatives that if she passed a church, that she should spit on the ground. Can you imagine??
There are some older Jews who would not enter a church for any reason, even if they were traveling and touring Notre Dame or St Peter’s or Westminster Abbey. But I think that mindset is dying.
I grew up with secular Christmas and Easter. Santa and bunnies. I wanted a small tabletop tree when I first got married and H objected. I am not kidding when I said we went to couples therapy over it. It took quite a long time for us each to get the others’ POV and to come up with a compromise. It really, really hurt.
@uskoolfish:
I can understand what you are saying and I hope it was obvious I am not saying anyone is wrong if something makes them feel uncomfortable and they won’t do it, my point was simply some people may have this image that most people who celebrate Christmas are going to be singing hyms, praying, and telling guests they have to come to Jesus. It was more to explain what Christmas means to many people to get over the misconceptions some have, not to tell anyone what to do:).
Just as an FYI, I have been at plenty of seders, rosh hoshannah celebrations, and nothing about it made me feel uncomfortable with its 'Jewishness", but then again I was not raised in a church, and probably went to synagogues more than churches in much of my life:)
All our non Jewish friends and family love coming to Passover Seder. I’ve never known anyone who felt uncomfortable and there is certainly a lot of prayers during the service. And if it is their turn to read they read them.
Do people who feel uncomfortable going to someone’s house for Christmas dinner not go to someone’s funeral if it’s in church? Plenty of prayers and talk about Jesus, etc., there.