As a Methodist minister, I would be thrilled if either of my kids married a practicing Christian. However, I will also be thrilled if they marry a Jew, Muslim, Hindu or none of the above - as long as that person loves them unconditionally and respects them. I have realized that I really have no control over who my kids date and marry. I just want to remain close to them and my potential grandchildren. My kids grew up extremely close to one set of grandparents and I want that relationship with my grandkids. So, I will be at every ceremony and event they participate in - even it is not Christian. If it is important to my kids - it will be important to me.
I don’t want to be like my in laws who publicly bemoan the fact that their “line” has died out because my son (their only grandson) is gay. Not only is it insulting to my son, who may end up adopting or having surrogate children, the granddaughters are extremely upset that the grandparents don’t consider them legitimate heirs.
In my book, what could be a more serious problem is that either the bride or the groom has no way to communicate with FIL/MIL at all, without the translator in-between, let alone the communication between the groom’s parents and the bride’s parents! When I say “communication”, I mean the shared spoken or written language beyond hello or goodbye. Many young couples and their family will have a problem at such a fundamental language level (our own son will have to overcome such a hurdle if he and his GF want a successful ending in their relationship. What could be worse is that we really choose to NOT pass onto him many cultural expectations/heritage in our culture of origin and the other family may think he “should know better” in our culture (by judging by his appearance) – which is likely not very different from theirs (but slightly less conservative/strict I think.) I could imagine his behavior in his interaction with her parents would be perceived as “out of the line” from their point of view. Hopefully, he could learn fast and her parents will be more “open minded” so that they can “meet in the middle.”)
Yeah I agree about that, Easter is probably the more religious of the two holidays in how people celebrate it. While Easter has some of the trappings of Christmas (easter eggs, the family meal on the day), it still primarily is a religious holiday, not surprising, given that the events of Good Friday and Easter are one of the strongest basis for Christian faith (the death and resurrection, however Christians view it), whereas Christmas , while advent has important ideas in light from the dark and hope, is simply not as important, the birth of Jesus was something to be celebrated, what is interesting is how relatively rapidly the parallel Christmas evolved, the one about family and meals and gifts and so forth, despite what the religious right claims, for example, this did not happen since WWII, it didn’t happen because of TV, it started many hundreds of years ago, and I could argue pretty easily that the secular stuff was as important as the religious back then, and these days, I think it is way, way in favor of the secular with most people.
Well, and more than a few Pagans who actually see it as their own religious holiday, but never mind them I suppose.
I daresay, as several have pointed out, fundamentalists are not the sum total of Christendom, even when joined by a smattering of RCC priests. But completely aside from that, you misunderstand my point: snowmen, Santas etc are trappings. Not substance, not the point-- wrapping paper, if you will, rather than the gift itself. However, if I may beat a metaphor to death, there’d be no wrappings without the gift. Santa, no matter how irreligious Jerry Falwell may find him, is a bowdlerized St Nick, not a secular figure like Uncle Sam, and he’s part of a holiday that-- while some celebrate without religious intent-- is of itself distinctly religious. To say otherwise would be akin to suggesting that because churches are sometimes used as polling places they are not houses of worship.
"Jewish boys have a bris as newborns, typically at 8 days old. Families often have a naming ceremony at their synogogue for infant girls. I would be very sad if that did not take place. A Christening or other Christian ceremony - I would not attend - and then the division that I fear really begin."
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What do you hope to accomplish by that except create a wedge and “bad blood.”
You’re dealing with a daughter-in-law. You’re being naive if you don’t realize that the “mom” (the DIL) will largely determine how often you see your grandchildren. Don’t create any wedges…otherwise you’ll pay forever.
I have one sister-in-law who is, well, often rude. My mom was always very gracious and supportive of her. When I asked my mom why she never said anything, my mom said, “because I want access to my grandchildren.”
@mcat2 The lack of a common language between your son and his in laws does not necessarily imply a serious problem. My husband can only speak my mother tongue at a basic level and my parents never spoke any of the three languages my husband is fluent in. People must understand that learning a language implies a serious time commitment which is not easy in practical terms unless one is immersed in the language. What is much more important is that the grandchildren are given the gift of a common language with their grandparents. That is why I insisted my children would learn my parents’ language whereas my husband was not invested in passing his mother tongue because his parents and extended family all speak perfect English albeit with an accent.
@rockvillemom - I’ll join the chorus of people saying that if you find yourself in the situation where your grandchild is baptized and you decide not to attend, be prepared for very negative repercussions for your relationship with your son, his wife, and grandchild. How would you feel if the Christian grandparents decided not to attend a bris, Bar Mitzvah, etc?
If DS#2 marries his non-jewish gf, we will welcome her into the family with open arms. She is a doll. If they have a child and there are some religious ceremonies that are not of our faith, we will of course attend. If they say that our s or a potential grandchild has accepted Jesus as their savior, I know my DH would never, ,ever say a word, but will cringe a little inside.
Actually, a whole lot of non-Jews might be reluctant to attend a bris because they don’t want to see someone doing THAT. They may be afraid they would throw up or faint. Circumcision is not something that people outside the Jewish faith routinely witness.
If you want a parallel, consider Christian funerals with open caskets. Open caskets are not part of Jewish tradition, and attending a funeral of this type can be an ordeal for a Jew. I know some Jewish people who simply cannot come into the room where a funeral service will be held until the casket is closed, no matter how much they care about the bereaved family.
Similarly, some non-Jews would not be able to be present at a bris until after the deed is done.
For the bris, typically very few people witness it up close. I think DH and his father and my father were pretty much the only ones up close - done in bedroom. The prayer and blessing part of the ceremony was in our living room for everyone.
I recently attended the funeral of a dear friend - my first with an open casket. Beautiful service - but we sat in back, partly because the open casket was uncomfortable. But I was certainly glad to be there and honor his life.
I truly adore the gf and we get along great. I have not had a good relationship with my Jewish m-i-l, mostly because I find her to be too opinionated and interfering in things that do not concern her. I have always said I want to be a very different m-i-l and have a great relationship with my d-i-l. Clearly, I have some challenges.
It struck me that I am more concerned about the feelings of my long dead grandparents than those of my son! I have to give that some thought.
^^Because of the brief family history I gave upthread, I am much more concerned about my future descendants than my ancestors. The ancestors are gone. Their lives are done. The descendants are yet to live. My actions have the potential to impact them, either positively or negatively.
Rockviillemome: here’s a thought. Many women I know are writing memoirs for future descendants. This is a way to tell them what you want them to know. It may have a positive impact. It gives them a history they may not otherwise be told.
We cannot change the past. We may have the ability to influence the future. At least, we can do our very best.
I do hope you will reconsider this stance if this happens in your family. These would still be your grandchildren, and this would still be your son and daughter in law. By not attending, it is my opinion that you would be causing the divide to take place, not them.
These are celebrations of faith…whether your faith or theirs, it’s still an important milestone for them if it happens. There is no reason to boycott these…and this will only make the statement that you don’t care about this family.
My neighbor taught himself the language of his MIL and FIL so well he was able to do business with foreign nationals in that tongue. I give him a great deal of credit, as that language is VERY tough and my kids gave up on it after trying it in HS for years.
@thumper1 - You are right. If my son and d-i-l choose this path - my not attending would be an insult. I do see that. I have been thinking about this strictly from my perspective - I have to try and see it from their point of view. You are right about it being an important milestone for them. I would need to get onboard. Intellectually, I see this. It’s hard to wrap my head around it emotionally.
Our long-dead grandparents had complicated stories, too. My German-American lapsed-Catholic grandmother was married three times, and one of her husbands was Jewish. No children were born during that marriage (probably because the husband died suddenly less than three years after the wedding), but I wonder how they would have handled things in those days if there had been a child. This was in the 1930s.
I too believe there would have been hurt feelings if in-laws chose not to attend baptisms of family members. To me, life is to short and previous to create rifts.
Regarding conversion and family love and acceptance, I think many people would benefit from rereading the book of Ruth. Whether or not it is “true,” it contains Truths:
Thanks for sharing your experience that the lack of a common language does not necessarily imply a serious problem.
This is an interesting perspective. This could be our case. If the GF (my wife has actually started to say in our conversation that she is our DIL, LOL) chooses to pass her parents’ language to our grandchildren (if any), we should know the reason and should openly accept that. This is because we could communicate with them.
DH and I hope to relocate to the Hilton Head area in a few years. And it was very important to us to note airport proximity and to look at properties with 3BR - as we want our sons and their future families to visit. My sons are my priority. I would never do anything to fracture that relationship. I’m glad I have time to digest these potential challenges and make my peace with this new reality.
