I’m not sure that parents realize what they will lose in taking the hurtful, unyielding stance that your in-laws took, @youdon’tsay. In my case, even tho one of my future in-laws gave H a “Divorce in HI” book as an engagement gift that H thought was odd but otherwise didn’t care about, we were not shown hostility beyond that as a couple and actually became fairly close.
One of my friends didn’t have her folks come to her wedding and her tears at her wedding were NOT tears of joy, though she was very happy to be marrying her best friend. The parents have accepted her choice and as far as I know they all get along pretty well, but she was VERY upset by her parents’ public display of opposition to her marriage. Both the groom and the bride were of the same ethnic background, but I guess the bride’s parents didn’t feel he was good enough for her. They’re still married nearly 3 decades later.
A story my H’s family tells is that when H was in college (this is before he met me), his father - notoriously tight with a dollar - gave him an American Express card and said - we will pay for the cost of your dates (dinner, movies, etc.) if they are Jewish girls. They think it’s a funny story. I don’t think it’s all that funny.
Dh’s older brother didn’t even have a wedding because of their father’s objection to his future bride, who, trust me, was the best thing to ever happen to that family.
And this is a secret … shhhhh … but that brother is planning a secret, elaborate wedding next month for his bride of 40 years who never got one. I just got my bridesmaid dress today and love it!
HImom, a book on divorce??? That’s so rude and, I hope in retrospect, hilarious! Some people …
I would never disown my kids, and frankly, I plan to be a very involved, generous, indulgent grandparent. My D and future SIL know that and actually appreciate it because his mom is not maternal or grandmotherly at all. My FIL was a difficult man, but being a grandparent brought out his best self and I plan to follow that model. My husband and I have a lot more money than future SIL’s parents and I have waited my whole life to have grandchildren to spend it on.
I’m sure the relative thought I was a “gold digger,” because why else would I fall in love with someone so much older than I? Never mind that we get along splendidly and I was making more than he was at the time and had a professional degree and profession while he had a bachelor’s degree and a government job. I’m glad that we didn’t let the inevitable differing opinions of others affect our feelings for one another and have had a very happy marriage.
@youdon’tsay, that’s SO SWEET! I’m so glad that you will be a bridesmaid and that the couple will have a fabulous wedding! Please post some photos–via private message if you prefer. I love happy weddings!
I hope I can write this how I am feeling. Sometimes I’m not the best writer.
I think that I can’t relate as a majority quasi Christian white woman how Jewish people who were persecuted feel. Of course I don’t really care what religion my kids marry, because they are part of a majority and that won’t change. But Jews were discriminated against and persecuted for a very very long time. It’s been a very short time, maybe 2 generations where Jews have become a part of the mainstream and people are much more tolerant. But it’s a double edged sword, because their culture and religion is being assimilated by intermarriage. And because the young don’t know what it is like to be discriminated against and persecuted. They don’t feel the need to marry within their religion. They have the opportunity to intermarry.
It’s sad to see a culture become even smaller because we have become more tolerant.
I am not sure about that. Saying it that way may sound good but I don’t see how it’s possible. People on this thread keep mentioning how judaism is different, that it’s not just religion, it’s life, culture, family all lump together. By the way, that’s not that unique to jewish religion. If you ask older italiens, you may get the same, there’s pasta and Mother, all together. Religion framed culture and life is greatly influenced by it regardless of any particular religion. The only thing different about jewish religion is one is born into it most of the time. Craving for the likeness, is often a source of bigotry, too. Consider a tight knit irish community or any other.
I grew up with a lot of bad feelings in my family about religion. My father was raised Catholic and my mother was Presbyterian. When they were engaged, she considered converting but decided she could not do that and raise her children Catholic. So they were married in the Presbyterian church and none of my father’s family attended the wedding. His only sister was very cold to my mother due to this religious issue. We were the city cousins and always felt like the black sheep. My grandparents were kind to us, especially my grandma, but it was always a sad aspect of our family. We were raised Presbyterian and my father rarely came with us to church, as he felt uncomfortable with it. In later years, everyone stopped being Catholic, even my formerly devout aunt, and all my cousins. So this whole family rift was really for nothing.
Ironically, when my mother was in high school/early college, her boyfriend was Lutheran. The two sets of parents were very disapproving of them as a couple because one was Lutheran and one was Presbyterian, and the parents pressured them to break up because of this! They didn’t want a “mixed marriage”!
@zoosermom It’s actually VERY discouraged to marry into family. The Prophet actually said something to that affect. The religion even forbids it in some cases. However, culture, like you said, sadly supersedes religion (and common sense). @youdon’tsay I’d egg his house. What a horrible thing to say.
zoos, I figured we had enough wedding threads, and all the options our expert shoppers on cc would propose would make my head spin. The daughters were clear about the loose parameters – anything I want – except for the color, which was quite limiting – gray. Not silver, gray. There weren’t just a million options. I went with a flowy, simple charcoal gray v-neck that hits mid-calf with a matching jacket edged in rhinestoney things. I went super-simple because the bride has ONE Day to pick her dress and get it altered so I wanted something that would be complementary with whatever she chooses. I feel like this will go with anything. (FYI, he is springing the news on her the Friday after T’giving and the wedding is the next evening. We have appointments at boutiques all day Friday to find the perfect thing for her to wear!)
Post #167: If you read the post before yours, it tells of some of the feelings Jewish people have when faced with inter-marriage. It may be bigotry, but to me it really is a matter of perpetrating the race and keeping the religion going for future generations to come. I imagine ANY mother or father for that matter would LOVE to see their child marry similar…Indians marry other Indians, Italians marry other Italians, Asians marry other Asians…this is not something just for the Jewish people. And by the way, there are Jewish Indians, Italians and Asians!
We have to become more tolerant as a nation but it still doesn’t mean we can’t hope that our children marry someone of similar culture & religion to how we grew up. I really don’t see anything wrong or bigoted with that! It may not happen…most likely they will date & marry whomever they want. Will the spouses still be invited into our family? Of course! But it’s okay to want our child to marry or more importantly raise their children to believe in one religion and certainly learn about other religions to make us all less ignorant. The more we learn about other religions, races, cultures, beliefs, the more tolerant and less ignorant people become. Then they are apt not to believe some of these ridiculous stereotypes that are put out there.
I would have no problem with any of my children marrying someone of a different race or of the same gender. What would be difficult for me is to have a child marry someone who is not Christian or who has totally different political views. Race and gender are about who the person is. Religion and politics are about what the person believes, his/her most core values. Nevertheless, I would do my very best to make that new spouse feel welcomed and loved. What would really alarm me is if a child were to marry a religious fundamentalist of any faith.
I’ve known two men (one black, one white) who were not happy that their children married someone of the “other” race. That unhappiness only lasted until the birth of the first grandchild!
Well, I can only speak to my own experience. But as a non-Christian married into a tight-knit family of Catholics, it’s worked lo these 20-some years. If it hasn’t, someone forgot to tell me.
The Jewish grandparents are outsiders? Or they made their disappointment and heartbreak so clear that there was no pleasing them?
Sorry for this, but the word heartbreak came from the original post.
BTW, my brother and I were the losers in the grandparent “But she’s not Jewish” tug. And that’s why my maternal side played a much stronger part in our lives.
Could you describe the core values you consider to be unique to Christianity? Not theological dogma, but actual values.
On another note, I’m sort of surprised that the subject of conversion to Judaism hasn’t come up much here. On the other hand, the person I know who converted when she married her Jewish husband often told me that his non-religious family gave her the “you’re not a real Jew” vibe. Perhaps they needed to contemplate Ruth and Naomi.
I don’t fault American Jews for wanting to pass family customs along to their grandchildren especially given their history of persecution, but also because, as a member of a minority myself, I understand that assimilation to the larger culture feels like you are losing something of your own culture. But by immigrating (and choosing to stay in the U.S.), I made a deliberate choice to share a common culture with other Americans, which necessarily means there is give and take. Otherwise, I could live in the country of my family’s origin in Asia and Jews could live in Israel as an example. I’m not suggesting that as a prescription for the issues raised here, of course. But assimilation is a small price to pay to be a part of the grand American experiment, no?
I am a devout Christian married to an atheist. My husband has always been very supportive of my faith and of my raising our kids in a church. He is a decent man who shares my morals, if not my faith.
But I know from experience how very hard it is to make certain decisions (particularly regarding money and giving) when spouses are of two different faiths. It doesn’t matter if both are lukewarm about their beliefs and are only nominally practicing them, but for me, it’s as if we really do have two different worldviews. My advice to my kids is that if they are committed to their faith (and both are now, although that may change), life will be a lot easier if they marry someone who shares it.
As far as race goes, I don’t think it matters, as long as the person shares their faith. The church I attend now is full of mixed race and multinational adoptive families, so much so that when I first started teaching Sunday school, I learned never to assume that the black dad at the door was there to pick up a black child; his could easily be Asian or white. My kids think this is totally normal, so I could see them marrying someone of any race or culture.