As much as I admire your posts and your work, I must disagree with you on this. These folks are not in any way deprived of their “different strokes” on a campus which includes Greek life among many other optional activities.
If college is supposed to broaden one’s horizons it seems counter-intuitive for students to reject out of hand an environment where some students may enjoy activities which may not appeal to them. This is particularly true when so many parents and high school students have such bizarre and incorrect notions about what’s involved in fraternity and sorority life on any given campus. There’s no reason for Greek life to affect a non-affiliated student in any way.
So everybody at Rice, Brandeis, etc. is making a closed-minded choice? A deliberate community based on everyone participating in the formal social groups isn’t a legit option? Quaker, Jewish, and Jesuit traditions of social inclusion are just ways to avoid broadening one’s horizons?
I mean, I didn’t want a sports school. You can be anywhere, even Alabama or Ohio State, and never go to any games, but that isn’t what I wanted. I share the values of schools that don’t give athletic scholarships, and where nobody’s decision to enroll is based on their intention to watch sports there. That was right for me, even though I could have gone to Stanford and ignored the sports. I preferred an institution that viewed its mission in a way that was more consistent with my priorities. Call me (and the Ivy League and Division III) closed-minded, I guess.
Everyone at Rice, Brandeis, etc. is there because there is no Greek life? I very much doubt that most students chose their schools because of some sort of mission statement. Usually they seem much more concerned with things like academics, location and cost.
Along with academics, cost, and location are other matters of fit…such as whether pan-hellenic organizations dominate campus life, they’re present, or whether the campus culture is a heavily party oriented one*.
Some students are fine with some or all of those points. Others, not so much.
- IME, defined by most as campus cultures with heavy alcohol consumption. Even if one doesn't party or partake in that culture, living in close proximity to students who do can be a huge detraction from his/her enjoyment of his/her college experience...or getting enough sleep due to the presence of loud drunken classmates who vandalize and/or leave vomit all over the bathrooms, hallways, and public dorm/campus areas.
Is being opposed to restricted country clubs also being “narrow-minded?”
It depends on the school. I can safely say that Brandeis’ mission statement and commitment to social justice is very much a part of their institutional DNA and permeates throughout the school.
Well, if it’s “narrow-minded” to prefer to be a part of a community that doesn’t have institutionalized cliques where there are even “better” cliques and “worse” cliques, then I guess I’m narrow minded.
Unfortunately I don’t believe that cliquiness is limited to fraternities and sororities . It permeates society.
^^ Agree @carolinamom2boys. But in the case of cliques like college fraternities and sororities, you pay for the insult of being judged harshly and then rejected. In the real world cliques, rejection comes free of charge.
I read Joblue’s remarks about narrow-mindedness as being directed to the mom of the kid who wants to complain to the governor about her son’s treatment and wished that the families and kids who participate in greek life suffer discrimination in the future . . . .
@PragmaticMom You only pay once you’ve joined the organization, so the only thing one pays is time and effort. I’m neither pro fraternity or against fraternities. I believe that individuals should be able to decide if it’s something they want to engage in. I do think hat there are other campus organizations that may be just as cliquish but are often given a “pass” because they don’t have Greek letters associated with their names.
IMO there’s a difference between institutionalized cliques and naturally forming, free of institutional support, cliques. The schools that have chosen not to allow the former have reasons for doing so, mainly it’s a part of creating an inclusive campus culture.
I think it’s great that some schools have them, and some schools don’t.
It is one more factor in choosing a college for many people.
.My son will be selecting colleges over the next six months. I want him to be in a fraternity and he wants to be in a fraternity, so a school without a healthy Greek system is going to move down a bit on the list.
The advice I will give my son is that he should keep an open mind, and be happy to join any fraternity that is a good fit. All the sad stories you hear are of someone who decided it was a particular fraternity or nothing. During the process, one should never speak ill of any fraternity or any other rushee. And one should try to use the process as an opportunity to connect with people in as many fraternities as possible. It’s good to have as many connections as possible when going through college.
I agree with @OHMomof2 that it’s great that people have a choice. My observation is that for those who want to go Greek it’s far more important as an option at larger schools, where they can help to keep one from getting lost in the crowd.
It seems to me now that it is the people who can’t even tolerate the presence of a Greek system on their campus who are doing the harsh judging and rejection. I’ve never heard anyone in a fraternity or sorority put down anyone who has chosen to forgo Greek life but there certainly is no shortage of folks who have never been in a GLO and know nothing about them (beyond what they see in the movies and see in the news when something bad happens in a fraternity or sorority), who feel very entitled to harshly judge the students who do participate. I guess I never realized how morally superior the people who hate the Greek system feel but I’m puzzled as to why, when it’s so very easy to avoid personal involvement. Why do so many of you care so much when you won’t ever have to deal with these organizations? Is it intolerable for other people to enjoy activities you find unappealing?
@Midwestmomofboys
You understood my post correctly but now I’m seeing an awful lot of narrow-minded judgement that goes way beyond the OP’s rant.
You’re not familiar with the term “GDI” @joblue ?
I don’t think I “care so much” but I did seek out colleges without Greek life and was glad my D did also.
The short answer is that in many cases you DO have to deal with them even if you don’t join, they often host the parties kids want to go to, and on some campuses they are really the only “big” social life available.
Where Greek orgs are a big part of campus life, one has only two choices: choose to be a part of it (if there’s a choice, since kids can be rejected from all in many systems) with the emotional risk of rejection and financial and time commitment that entails, or choose not to and be on the outside of the dominant social scene for the rest of college. Neither option appealed to me, personally, or to my D.
My S actually became a sweetheart to a sorority in college, and that was the right call for him. But his college had less than 10% participation in greek orgs.
@joblue - The OP didn’t rant it was another poster who sort of took over the thread who did that.
^^You’re right, the insanity began at post 20. Apologies to the OP.
LOL! That has always been the self-congratulatory term/letters that those who are very proud NOT to be affiliated with fraternities use to describe themselves. Greeks don’t really use it to describe non-Greeks. They have no axe to grind with them.
Clearly some greeks do use the term. A simple internet search proves that. I will take your word that none of the greeks you know personally use it that way, or ever refer to non-greeks negatively.
Joblue is right. You people have this weird sense that people in Greek life care that others are in Greek life too. Maybe that’s the case in the overblown, take-themselves-too-seriously systems, but in normal systems? Why would anybody care? You have friends who happen to be Greek and friends who happen not to be. My S was Greek and dates a girl who isn’t. Why isn’t she? Well, she wasn’t interested. Great. Who cares? Non-Greeks aren’t some kind of “other world.” You take classes with them, you hang out wth them, you room / dorm wth them. You just happen to be in a particular club they chose not to be in, that’s all. It’s as ludicrous as suggesting that people on the tennis team care whether other people are involved in sports.
And really,it’s the independents who care / resent Greeks who use the term GDI. We didn’t use it. Because you don’t need a term to describe non-Greek people any more than you need a term to describe non-tennis players.
Please do not use TFM, TSM or Greekchat as representative of anything. They are hopelessly over skewed to the southern Greek experience which is over the top, takes itself utterly way too seriously, and is very prestige/hierarchy based. It skews to stupid hijinks, conservative markers (guns, Republicans, golf) that don’t bear any resemblance to the northern systems. They don’t represent my northern experience at all.