Just out of curiosity @Pizzagirl How much experience do you have with Southern Fraternities or Sororities? Sounds awfully judgmental IMO.
It amuses me that there is an imaginary geographic line between cool, easygoing Greek systems and over the top ridiculous Greek systems that we should ignore because they arenât real (?) ones.
Why thank you, OHMomof2. Since most of my Greek experience is with the much-maligned, pumped up on steroids, SEC system, I figure if people donât use it there they donât use it anywhere. I do hope you didnât stumble into that stupid website, GreekRank and think that represents reality. Most chapters strongly suggest their members stay far, far away from it and Iâm convinced that most of the people posting there are just bored, drunk, and not even members of any GLO (IOW, T&%\s).
But think about it seriously; why would Greeks even bother to malign those who choose to not participate? What would it get them? It seems to me that non-Greeks spend much more time worrying about Greeks than Greeks do about those who arenât members. After all, most Greek students are friends with people in their classes, freshman dorms and other campus organizations. There just isnât any reason for them to be upset with those who choose not to rush. That would be like members of the marching band looking down on non-band members. Why?
âPlease do not use TFM, TSM or Greekchat as representative of anything.â
Youâre right that we shouldnât take their presentation as universal. Theyâre representative of their scene. Itâs real, and itâs big. If we are talking about national organizations, people who find the Alabama/Georgia/Texas/USC Greek culture troubling may care what goes on there even if they are attending a campus where the chapters are very different. Some donât care, but itâs reasonable to care, since the groups self-identify as values-based organizations.
I agree. But they might not be that crazy about those potential members they, oh, explicitly told they didnât want in their organization.
If someone has ârejectedâ my advances of friendship in some manner, I donât go hoping against hope that they will change.
But yeah, I was friends w girls in sororities that had cut me. Maybe ten of their sisters hadnât liked me during rush, but if I met a girl in French class and we liked one another, then we became friends. As simple as that.
And my daughter is friends with girls who pledged houses that cut her and with girls in houses that she declined during rush. More importantly, from my point of view, she is still extremely close with her roommate and the others who became her âfamâ during freshman year, none of whom âwent greek.â I think sheâd snort and roll her eyes if she knew I was participating in this debate, because the us-vs.-them mentality is simply not part of the reality in the greek system at her school.
^^^No, just no. It simply doesnât work that way. Unless a potential new member (PNM) actually came into the sorority house and insulted her hosts or simply was rude (and trust me, it certainly does happen), there is never any hostility to anyone who may not have been successful in matching with a given sorority. The way it works is: chapters have quotas; if the quota is 50 and there are 75 girls in the final rush group, the sorority members must list all the PNMs in order of how badly the sisters may want each girl. At this point in the process, they LIKE all the girls who are still participating and would take them all if they could. At the same time, the PNMâs list the sororities they have visited in the final round in their own order of preference. All the lists are submitted and computer matched to produce the bids to the PNMs. So it can be that girls who a particular sorority wants very badly will match with a house they ranked more highly and the chapter will then match with girls who may be lower on the lists, but will have ranked that house more highly on their own lists. Every year there are sorority girls in tears because a girl they met and liked very much, ended up matching with a chapter she ranked higher than theirs. Both sides of the transaction are choosing. Does this make any sense to you? It just isnât anything like the stuff you see on TV or movies with a bunch of mean girls verbally tearing PNMs apart in the meetings following the parties. It is taken very seriously.
Does Harvard harbor ill-will toward those students who were not accepted but ended up at Yale (or the University of Alabama) instead? Of course not.
This is all about social judgment. The analogy to a marching band is irrelevant. Kids who arenât in the marching band are not excluded because people didnât like them enough. And itâs disingenuous to say we like all those people we didnât allow into our house just as much as everyone else. Maybe you do like them, maybe you donât, but the fact is you donât like them as much as the 50 other people you allowed into your socially exclusive club.
Prior to the getting to the 75 in the final group, the ones that didnât make that cut were not particularly liked, or at least, not liked as much, I presume.
I get that thereâs a system that is as fair as it can possibly be given the nature of the beast here, I really do, and I get that fraternity and sorority members might like more people than they can accept into their club.
But the whole thing is still distasteful to me, the idea that based on mainly superficial criteria (what else can it be when itâs minutes-long meetings at parties over the course of a week), some kids will be made welcome and some will be rejected.
Despite that, I am perfectly fine with the existence of greek orgs, more power to those who want to be a part of them. But I am glad it was not part of my college social life and Iâm glad itâs not part of my Dâs either.
You are missing the point. First, Joblue is correct; the selection process is respectful; it is NOT âewwww, did you see how tacky her shoes wereâ as some of you seem to believe. Second, the girls in the houses can also be disappointed when a girl they liked ranks another house higher and gets in there. The disappointment works both ways.
âPrior to the getting to the 75 in the final group, the ones that didnât make that cut were not particularly liked, or at least, not liked as much, I presume.â
Yep. Just like, if you listed all the CC membersâ names in a row, I could pick out the 50 I most would want to hang around and those Iâm not interested in.
âAnd itâs disingenuous to say we like all those people we didnât allow into our house just as much as everyone else. Maybe you do like them, maybe you donât, but the fact is you donât like them as much as the 50 other people you allowed into your socially exclusive club.â
I donât like some people as much as I like others. And some people donât like me as much as they like others. And some people I desperately want to like me are just never going to like me. This is life.
Yes, but itâs a cruel thing to do to a kid just starting out on their own. A judgement being made, based on just a few minutes of conversation is inherently going to be based on stereotype. All that seems counter to the inclusive environment colleges should be promoting.
And itâs a lot more than, I like to go to dinner with the kid in the room to the right and the kid on the room to the left I just donât find as interesting or fun and so I donât ask them to go with me. A lot different IMO.
That doesnât change my opinion at all. So the collective group of girls experience collective disappointment when a girl chooses a different sorority? Why? They hardly knew her, presumably, and they have each other. In any case, I already said more power to those who want to do it, not sure why you put forth the effort to change my opinion.
This would be based on their opinions, viewpoints, intelligence, stories shared, helpfulness and other attributes you discern through years of posts, private messages, in-person meetups and such, presumably. Thatâs not even remotely similar to âSuzy isnât our type of girl based on the 2 minute conversation we had at that rush party so we are going to cut herâ.
âAnd itâs a lot more than, I like to go to dinner with the kid in the room to the right and the kid on the room to the left I just donât find as interesting or fun and so I donât ask them to go with me. A lot different IMO.â
Imo itâs exactly the same. Did you care about the feelings of the kid to the room in the left? Youâve ârejectedâ him. And he has to see you all the times versus the Greek situation.
âYes, but itâs a cruel thing to do to a kid just starting out on their own. A judgement being made, based on just a few minutes of conversation is inherently going to be based on stereotype. All that seems counter to the inclusive environment colleges should be promoting.â
When Iâve hired people, I knew within the first 5 minutes whether this person was right for us or whether he or she wasnât. I know who I click with and who I donât.
Well for starters, Iâm just one person, not a cohesive group of people that he put himself out there and asked to join.
itâs rather more like âa group of kids on the dorm floor are going out to dinner together and though you said you wanted to come with us, we donât want you and are telling you soâ.
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Yes and not only that, they are all wearing a dorm T shirt which they said you canât have. And you have to see that reminder of your rejection every day for 4 years.
In fact, I think most people would be polite and kind enough, if going to dinner with right hand kid, and left hand kid says, Oh, are you going to dinner, may I join you? to include them even if they arenât best friends.
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I get it now⊠I should be inviting every coworker in my office of 150 to lunch at least twice a year. Otherwise, some will feel left out⊠even though they have plenty of other coworkers who will happily go out to lunch with them.
On the other hand, perhaps the best option is simply to eat lunch by myself all the time. That way, everyone will be treated equally, and there will be no chance of hurt feelings.
Or maybe there should be a rotating schedule (kind of like speed dating), where I eat lunch with every person an equal number of times throughout the year. Yeah⊠thatâs the ticket!