Advice? LAC vs money from not super pooper?

College Search & Lists
1

okay, i dont know what to do.
i was accepted at haverford on good/decent cash (would probably end up taking out 3-5k in loans per year with parents paying between 11-12k (suuuper grateful for that))… but also i have full tuition at drexel (+ STARS scholar) and temple (i’m not dorming for either so thats basically free)… I know neither really compare to haverford in terms of rankings or whatever but heres the dilemma
I’m fairly certain I will be attending law school
I’m fairly certain I will want to go T14
I’m fairly certain that a nice 4.0+ is more attainable at temple and drexel
also the lsat prep would be less stressful when im basically going to college for free (right???)
and 0 student loans sounds thoroughly appealing
BUT ALSO
will drexel/temple rankings hurt me during grad school prep?
what if i dont actually want law? would haverford offer better job prospects?
will haverford offer me a better introduction into academia/ guide me better through grad school prep than the other two (temple seems to have decent pre-law advising…)
does haverford truly have more opportunities? is it worth that load of money?

Everyone I know says I can’t go wrong: free education vs elite education, it is not the worst problem in the world.
But my parents and I? How the hell should we know what to do? I tried researching this as much as possible and I just cannot come to a good conclusion. Their only advice is to do what I think is best and of course that’s all they can say the never freaking went through this crap american education system, let alone had to deal with the “prestige” factor that every damn person stresses about. Obviously I don’t know the best choice either. I can’t find hard stats that differentiate temple vs haverford vs drexel besides haverford kids typically go on to elite law schools (based on looking at incoming class profiles of T20 law schools)…but is that just because haverford attracts that crowd? could i genuinely do the same and have my work looked at equally if i go to temple/drexel? Essentially: I am stressed about money, believe that, in a perfect world, effort means more than prestige, and cannot come to a conclusion. Everywhere I turn there is contradicting advice. If someone could weigh in that would be lovely and very much appreciated.

PS i don’t have a set major :slight_smile: makes life fun since i can’t look into specific programs :slight_smile: interested in comp sci, education, and public health…not like any of that is helpful info im sure

2

sorry for the oddly passive aggressive tone I’m just scared to do the wrong thing

3

I would attend the school you prefer and afford. All tentative plans may change. Also living on campus is so different. It’s a real difference.

4

Drexel & Temple are really solid schools. Drexel offers a lot of internships.

Basic difference between Drexel / Temple & Haverford is that Drexel & Temple prepare students to enter into the workforce with experience & practical skills.

Again, both Drexel & Temple are fine universities.

5

The level of loans you’re talking about is modest. I think that Haverford is worth it. The problem is going to be the cost of law school.

6

I would suggest digging more into Drexel, it seems that a school that makes you do Co-ops like Drexel , either one or three depending on you, would help in 2 ways, you could save some money up for law school, and you could try for a co-op at a law firm and see if you like it.

7

i don’t think i have a preference anymore… i love haverford but finances are pretty important to me… i didn’t even think i would have the chance to afford it and i do as long as i work + get some loans and loans…and loans…worry me a lot… living on campus though has never been important to me though. I live, at most, 40 minutes away from drexel/ temple

8

Haverford would open up opportunities you may not even know about at Drexel or Temple. But if you are deadset on a T14 law school and can get a high LSAT score, I can see how Temple/Drexel make sense.

9

haha yep…thats the other part of the financial convo- do i want to enter law school w preexisting undergrad debt? it could be minimized with a job post under-grad but i have a feeling i would like to go straight through to law

10

i definitely will! they have info on the companies that host co-op students according to industry (i think, it might be majors) that I have to take a closer look at

11

Have you factored the commuting costs in both time and money? 40 minutes each way five or more days a week can be a real drag.

Do your parents have the money to readily pay their share of the cost at Haverford, or will they need to take on any debt in addition to yours?

12

i was planning on taking the train and ive commuted to drexel for summer courses and got a decent amount of work done during that time, ofc 5 days a week is different…both temple and drexel offer discounted monthly passes but that cost is much less than haverford

and honestly… i have no idea… my mother says one thing my father says another (their status financially is a whole different conversation)… they’re willing to do up to 6k per semester combined distributed on a monthly basis through a system haverford has tho, or so they say

13

Drexel & Temple may open up opportunities you may not even know about at Haverford.

With a high LSAT score, you will be admitted to T-14 law schools from any of your options.

14

I live just outside Philadelphia and am very familiar with all three schools.

You haven’t mentioned the type of campus experience you seek. If you could offer some thoughts on that, I could provide a more detailed answer.

Two immediate thoughts:

  1. Consider @Publisher comment regarding LSAT. That score, essays, work experience, Undergrad GPA all count in descending order. The LSAT score sorts your right from the start.

All three schools offer a high quality education and excellent professional resources to the individual who seeks them.

  1. Total up your parents’ generous contribution as well as your own for all four years. That figure might be larger than you think and better used for law school prep, apps, and towards tuition.

Haverford is in a quiet suburb and somewhat small compared to the other two. Drexel is in University City next to UPenn, a vibrant college area of the city. Temple is in North Philadelphia and has become a very popular undergrad and grad location over the last several years.

What does your temperament seek?

15

So Sorry: I missed your commuter status. That’s hugely important. Two things to consider are scheduling classes and connecting with other students. Because that is important. Even if you do not live there, you should be able to meet people and have some fun.

Effort does mean more than prestige. I went to Immaculata and onto Oxford for grad school. I would def lean away from Haverford and towards one of the others. It sounds like money is a little stressful for your parents, too. I can understand that as a parent of a senior during Coronavirus time. So honestly you have two wonderful offers. Explore them more. You have time right now.

All schools want to talk to you right now. They are crazy to connect with prospective students. I think you should email both your AOs and ask for a phone conversation (or just call them directly). Tell them you are thinking of commuting and want to know about scheduling classes and commuter services. How they handle it will be very illuminating I think. Go online to other sites and check out conversations Temple Commuters and Drexel Commuters. Using the word ‘review’ often helps.

Good luck!

16

There’s a reason those law schools like to publish lists of all the undergrad colleges they select from. They are not egalitarian or meritocratic (like med schools) when it comes to picking a first-year class. If confronted with two applicants with equally high LSAT scores, the applicant from the “name” college or university is going to have an advantage over a commuter school in Philadelphia. Not an absolute advantage but a solid one nonetheless.

Before you shut the door on Haverford, I’d graph the marginal costs of $30k when stretched over the life of the loan compared with the far larger loans you’ll be taking out for a T14 law school. It may not be the brick you think it is.

17

What is your intended major? Did you get into Honors at Temple?

Temple and Drexel were on my S20’s short list for business. We liked them both more than we thought we would. Drexel’s co-op experience is very nice although not sure if there are work/visa considerations for international students. Temple’s business school looked good as well, especially the Fox Honors program. Their law school is also well regarded. My son also looked at Law school after undergrad.

Personally, I’d go for lowest cost if you’re considering law school. YMMV.

18

Also, if you have AP/IB or transfer credits it seems like public schools like Temple are more accepting of transfer credits. If you have a lot you could in-theory graduate in 3 years.

19

No.

Almost certainly no- what you do with your summers will matter more.

No

[quote]
when it comes to picking a first-year class. If confronted with two applicants with equally high LSAT scores, the applicant from the “name” college or university is going to have an advantage over a commuter school in Philadelphia. Not an absolute advantage but a solid one/quote]

@circuitrider, do you have first hand / authoritative info on this? I have a little direct experience, and that is absolutely not true for the 2 T14s that I know about directly. Anecdotally, H&Y have a predilection for their own grads.

OP, would your parents be willing to put the money that they are willing to pay for Haverford into a 524 account (or similar savings account) for you? If so, you could graduate from college not just debt free but with a $45K+ nest egg- or almost half the cost of a T14 law degree. If you have moved away from law by then, it’s a down payment on your first place.

20

How difficult is it for your parents to contribute that $11-12,000 per year at Haverford? Does it mean just cutting back on “extras” or does it mean working a second job, pulling money from retirement, foregoing medical care etc.? If it is manageable for your parents, and does not create a financial sinkhole, then the roughly $30,000 in your own debt for undergrad should not be an obstacle, in my mind, to accepting Haverford. Haverford is a “life of the mind” kind of community, with a clearly defined campus culture which values autonomy and self-governance (the Honor Code). It is the kind of school whose entire existence is premised on the idea that education transforms people. As such, attending Haverford could lead to all kinds of paths, connections, directions, that a senior in high school cannot imagine in the abstract (especially when under shelter in place orders).

Temple and Drexel do an excellent job of educating students in a fairly cost-effective manner. There will be amazing students there, but they, like you, are likely juggling family responsibilities, work etc.

For T14 law school, the most important aspects of your application will be gpa and LSAT, and the gpa doesn’t matter much where it comes from – a 3.95 from Drexel is better than a 3.3 from Haverford, no matter what. The LSAT is prep-able, and students can prep themselves into a 170+ score, though many of those students spend 6+ months prepping, more or less full time, unlike college admissions test prep which can often be squeezed into the regular day. Now, there are students for whom the test just makes sense, and they easily get a 175 without much prep but they are rare and no student should expect to be that way.

A long way of saying, you have wonderful, though very different, options. Each can help you get where you want to go, all will require giving up something – money at Haverford, the residential college experience at Temple and Drexel.