I’m familiar with all three schools; if you really don’t have a preference, as stated above, go with the money.
And not sure if it matters, but Haverford’s entire student population is the size of most large high schools, and is solely UG. Both Temple and Drexel are much larger, with graduate professional schools and graduate programs.
Law school applications consist primarily of one’s LSAT score, one’s undergraduate GPA, a personal statement, two recommendations & sometimes an additional essay.
The most important factor is an applicant’s LSAT score, followed by undergraduate GPA, URM status, & then one’s personal statement. Next would be an applicant’s recommendations. My point is: If one’s undergraduate school comes into play, it is not likely to be among the top 4 or 5 factors considered by a law school admissions committee.
A possible advantage of attending Haverford College over your other two options might be with respect to development of one’s analytical writing skills. With this in mind, you should seek out & take a few writing intensive courses at Temple or Drexel–your best options financially.
FWIW Financial responsibility is a significant factor for state bar character & fitness (C&F) reviews. Probably the most common offenses resulting in discipline for practicing attorneys involve finances and attorney trust fund accounts. Selecting an affordable college education is an example of exercising financial responsibility.
P.S. Recently, I read that the average student loan debt incurred by law school students is about $122,000, therefore, it is wise to finish undergraduate school with as little debt as possible.
If I were in your position Temple would be the easy choice. It’s a solid school with a good reputation that will get you into Law School. I don’t see any advantage to choosing Haverford if law school is your goal. Save the money and use it for law school.
Yes, I went to Penn law school and it was incredibly prestige-conscious. I would preface that with the fact that I attended at the apex of law school popularity some forty years ago when the admission rates were routinely in the single digits at top schools. They were clearly turning highly qualified people away and by my estimate they were able to fill about 40% of my tiny first-year class of 200 with graduates from maybe 15-20 colleges and universities with about 10% from Penn itself. Temple and Drexel combined may have equaled the number of first-years from Haverford despite being 10xs bigger.
And, it’s a two-way street. As first-years, it became obvious that there was a certain hierarchy among law firms, too; we learned to genuflect at the names of a coveted handful of “white shoe” firms (not all of which still exist, but have been replaced by others, I’m sure) that only interviewed at a limited number of law schools. So, I don’t think it’s beyond the realm of possibility that feeder law schools have the same tendency themselves.
the other thing is that, since haverford is immensely smaller, i probably will get to know my teachers better…i really appreciate a small class because, not only does it end up feeling like family, but the teachers/ profs (i feel like) end up caring more because they know our names…i keep hearing that undergrad institution plays a small role in general for grad admissions and i believe it… but it feels hard to believe, if that makes sense? what is urm status by the way?
yes haha money is quite the stressor right now, mostly because i feel like i am not getting any transparency from my parents…but in terms of involvement I wanted to continue/ expand on things I was involved in during high school like dance and band. I was planning on calling Haverford because i know we have some current monthly payments not accurately reflected in css/ fafsa but idk if it will make any difference but its worth a shot. I will add calling drexel and temple about commuting! I will also ask more about their pre-law advising. Thank you!
i will do that for sure! the advice i am getting from close friends is that taking out some loans for the better name is definitely worth it…but i dont want to burden my parents in any way… even if i am paying them back, it is their name on that money…that is still a situation i need to clarify at home though, I just know from how conversations have been going that i will at least have to take out 1.5k
“URM status” = whether or not you are from an underrepresented minority group such as African-American, Native American, or Hispanic.
Most law schools give a significant admissions boost to URMs.
Always a good idea to contact a school about FA after you’ve been admitted.
There is definitely a prestige factor in the law school admissions-and the legal profession- as pointed out above, but it’s pretty tough if not impossible to quantify.
And have you visited all three schools? Which did you like best? Why?
And for now, focus on UG alone; many many UG students change plans while in college. What was once law school can become business or academia.
yesyes honors at temple and idrc ab honors at drexel because i chose to only apply for stars…but, if it means anything, i was under the honors college “high school scholars” program for my classes so i think/hope that if i wanted honors classes i could get them/ get into that program through a few conversations…and currently i have six 5’s, I think that is like a solid term off?
yes, I think they would definitely be willing to help me save up for grad school…do you mind if i ask how you know haverford wouldn’t help as much for my other questions? i mean, it seems like haverford has better guidance as to what to do during summer due to their center for peace and global citizenship (something that really drew me to the school)
OP: If you want to pursue a career in IB (investment banking) or in MC (management consulting), then prestige of one’s undergraduate school can be a significant factor.
But, if determined to attend law school, there are only a few universities (Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Stanford, MIT, Chicago, Northwestern, Duke, Columbia, other Ivies–basically a T-25 National University) or an elite LAC that might justify taking out loans over a full tuition & fees scholarship. Of course, Haverford College falls into the category of an elite LAC, but whether it is worthwhile in your situation depends upon what you want & expect from your college experience. With respect to post undergraduate employment, Temple or Drexel could be better options.
Each college has its own AP rules-so that’s another good thing to check. But yes, getting six 5s is awesome. But check with each school-they’ll be different-here’s what I found for Temple:
http://www.temple.edu/vpus/transfer/equivalency.html
But check all three; you may get quite a few credits!
so, @circuitrider, b/c I have been #socialdistancing too long I will push back- gently! on your thesis, and posit that there have been a lot of relevant changes in the last 40 years that make your experience less relevant for the OP.
For a start, I think it’s a safe bet that the distribution of students in 1980 was a lot different than the 2020 incoming class at UPenn, which is 49% female, 40% poc. The 249 students are drawn from 230 undergrad colleges, so at most 18 students went to duplicate colleges.
In your era most people were going straight from undergrad to grad, whereas 72% of the new Penn class have been out of college for at least a year, and the average age is 25 (a trend you see at all the T14s). That means most of them have something else they have done (a lot of them working in law offices while cramming for the LSAT…) as part of their application package.
i think they would end up taking out loans… im sure they can do 9k without loans and really their contribution as calculated by haverford was approx 11k… maybe doable? again, i need clarification from them and i am not getting any… i really applied there because i thought i could afford it and because the community drew me in: the honor code, large emphasis on social good, and small classes (which always cultivates a sense of comfort and familiarity) are just some of the things i like. if i was sure my parents could afford it i think i would take my package and run haha, but thats not the case…
To be blunt:
If there is a substantial liklihood that you will attend law school soon after finishing undergraduate school, do not take out loans to attend Haverford College in light of your other options of full tuition & fees scholarships plus honors college.
It is not uncommon for young lawyers to consider self-harm due to the heavy burden of student loan debt.
Ok, so my daughter attends Haverford, I attended and subsequently worked at Temple, and my sister graduated from Drexel. They are all VERY different schools with very different vibes and campus cultures. Me and my sister were commuter students, so we’ve had that experience as well. If at all feasible I would seriously consider Haverford. In my opinion the other two just don’t compare in terms of the whole experience. If money is a serious concern (or your parents cannot actually afford their portion), then of course you have to go with what’s affordable… but all things equal I would always pick Haverford. I guess I’m just surprised that you don’t have stronger feelings one way or the other about all three.
OP-definitely check what AP credit you’ll get from each school, and contact the FA offices at each, but milgymfam has it right-these are very different schools. Only you can decide what factors-money, location, school size-matter most to you.
Honors at Temple may be quite a different experience than for non-honors college students at Temple University.
Not familiar with Stars or Honors at Drexel, but Drexel encourages work internships that certainly lead to an experience different than an elite LAC.
But, as both OP & parents will have to take out loans in order for OP to attend Haverford College, there really is not much to consider as two options are affordable and one is not. Also, incurring debt to attend Haverford may limit OP’s law school options due to finances.
@collegemom3717 wrote:
I think you may have read those stats too quickly. That correct number of undergrad colleges represented in Penn’s most recent class is 119 which is consistent with my experience 40 years ago. The rest of your post was very eye-opening:
https://www.law.upenn.edu/admissions/jd/entering-class-profile.php