Advice Needed - Freshman D continuing self-destructive behavior

Parent Cafe
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<p>My closest friend asked me to ask all of the wise parents of CC for advice. Her D is currently a college freshman. They are a highly educated family and there are two children, one still at home. The parents try very hard to provide a good home and all of the resources possible for their children, while still encouraging them to have jobs and do well in school. The children attended parochial high schools and they have extended, caring family nearby. </p>

<p>D has been a problem since she was 13. She has continuously sought out males on the internet, most of whom seem to be without jobs and not people that anyone would want their D to associate with, including some with criminal records. She then engages in explicit sexual banter, and has often made arrangements to meet these people covertly. When she was 13 she got caught sneaking into the school at lunch to be with boys. As she got older, she would sneak around in other ways for the purposes of sexual meetings with random males (of different ages). </p>

<p>D has been caught many times and the family has sent her for counseling (three times) and has gone to family counseling (twice), but nothing has helped. The D has ADD and is on medication. The D did poorly her first semester of college, but claims to be doing better. The D has made friends and in some respects, seems to be doing okay, academically and socially with girls. The D is very overweight but claims to want to lose weight. </p>

<p>Recently, my friend found out through phone records that her D continues to communicate sexually explicit messages, often leading to face to face sexual contact, with a variety of males she does not know, both through the internet and cell phone. Recent phone records indicate that D sends/receives over 20,000 texts per months and sends an average of 100 pictures (the pictures are not visible, although one soft-porn pic was inadvertently sent to an account my friend can access). D is also constantly on facebook, twitter, ovoo, myspace and skype.</p>

<p>My friend is at a loss and is dreading the summer. Spring break was a blow up where my friend confronted her D, told her she would not give her the car to drive around, and D blew up and ran out of the house. My friend has lovingly told D that she is trying to stop her from making mistakes that will ruin her life, but D claims that she is not ruining her life and will associate with whomever she wants. D lies constantly about what she is doing, so they have no open communications - although D has said that she will associate with whomever she wants, but knows she wont marry this type of person. Honestly, my friend is not trying to control D - just trying to prevent her from these anonymous contacts with people she does not know leading to sex in a parking lot with someone with an STD (this has happened). My friend has taken many, many disciplinary actions over the years, including taking away cell phone and other privileges. D is now 19. </p>

<p>Should my friend stop paying for the cell phone? D has no other source of income and has no money saved. Should my friend stop paying for school? My friend is worried that if she pushes D too hard, she will just simply fall into a bad lifestyle and lose contact with her family. D seems to have no regard for any member of the family. There are no drugs involved and D does not appear to be a heavy drinker. D plans to come home and work for the summer and will want to drive the family car. If D becomes to uncomfortable and leaves home, she does have friends she can live with who will further encourage this bad lifestyle and could make things worse for D. </p>

<p>Does anyone have experience with this? My friend is afraid to do anything that will make matters worse (like kicking her out) but she really has tried everything and her D promises she will change her ways, but within minutes is meeting new people on line and sexting within five contacts, so her promises are empty. D clearly has a problem, but my friend does not know where to turn or how to help. She loves her D and would do anything to help her.</p>

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<p>Remember the definition of insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. </p>

<p>What they have done to date has not worked and the parents need to change their behavior. I suggest that the parents seek out some serious counseling to help them in doing this. Focusing on changing daughters behavior is not productive at this point as she seems to pretty set on it. I think the best thing the parents can do is find out, through professional help, what they are doing to enable their daughters behavior, and disengage in a way that they can feel comfortable in the future that they have done the best they can for her. </p>

<p>Truthfully, I am amazed that this has been going on since age 13 for 6 years and that a serious intervention was not made years ago.</p>

<p>BTW: 20,000 texts/mo comes out to over 40 texts/hr in a 16 hour day, through meals, classes, writing papers.</p>

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<p>I think this is the best course of action at this point. </p>

<p>Just to start, why are the parents still providing a cel phone? Sometimes people get, for lack of a better word, addicted to the drama of a family problem and that makes it near impossible for them to be anything other than an enabler. </p>

<p>Truly, the parents need intensive therapy, the sooner the better.</p>

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<p>Early overly sexual seductive behavior plus overweight plus parochial school makes me wonder about sexual abuse. Possible?</p>

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<p>I have known this D since she was born and know the parents well. I know that nothing is impossible, but I have never seen or heard of anything that would indicate sexual abuse. She’s always been a child who seems to get addicted to things - starting with food at an early age. They’ve done so much counseling. The counselors who work with the D always seem to buy into the D’s claim that nothing is going on and my friend is overreacting. </p>

<p>I think my friend’s biggest fear is losing her only D. She’s afraid that if she does too much to block her behavior, that her D will move in with these people and truly live this sort of life. Ultimately, I don’t think D could handle a life without all of the amenities she currently has, but my friend is too scared to let her go down that path. At the end of her senior year, she did “run away” and stay with one of these people and came home claiming she would change her ways, but just continues to do the exact same thing. </p>

<p>D claims she needs the cell phone to log on to the internet at school - I don’t believe that and told friend that. I am encouraging friend to limit her usage to a normal range just so D has to think about the value of her texting. 20,000 per month is insane and yes, it is clearly through classes etc. </p>

<p>Has anyone ever let a child dive into the “bad” life and then seen that child come out? The life D secretly lives is completely incompatible with the life her family leads and provides for her. In some ways, forcing the D to make a connection between the people she seeks out and the life she will lead if she continues to associate with these people may be helpful. Friend is just too afraid she will lose her D and has heard horror stories about the effects of kicking a D out. She just wants to pay for her education and hopes that D will one day right herself. In the meanwhile, it is killing my friend.</p>

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<p>Bookmarked</p>

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<p>It might be prudent to speak with an individual at student services at D’s school to help keep an eye on her. Her advisor (depending upon the size of the school) may also be called in to ensure she stays on track with her coursework.</p>

<p>I agree that until the D decides on her own to make her health and safety a priority, given she is out of the house, there is little the parents can do without alienating her at this point. They could, of course, discontinue payment of her schooling, but this will also carry with it certain repercussions.</p>

<p>I would also be concerned about sexual abuse in this girls past (not necessarily the parents, of course). Would the parents be open to asking their D about this?</p>

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<p>It seems to me, that they parents have already lost this daughter. The changes of her getting a serious sexually transmitted disease is very high, along with facing serious bodily harm in one of these situations. Yes, I’ve seen people come out of these situations, but it often took years, and years … and after the parents had walked away.</p>

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<p>And therefore, your friend is enabling her daughter into continuing in this life that is <em>bad</em> for her. </p>

<p>Your friend is making this about <em>her</em> need to not ‘lose’ her daughter. It needs to be about what your friends daughter needs, and that is to not be enabled by her parents, as well meaning as the parents may be. Mother needs to realize she is complicit in this situation and take responsibility for not allowing the situation to continue.</p>

<p>It has to be about what is best for the daughter. And in the final analysis, this is what all parents would want.</p>

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<p>D has been a problem since she was 13.</p>

<p>Is it the daughter who is the actually the problem or is it her current behavior?
I think she needs to get rediagnosed- because she seems to be acting out quite a bit & that is an indication that she wants help but doesn’t know how to get it/what kind- or thinks she doesn’t deserve it.
Probably because she " has been a problem".
I think for the parents to get serious help with their strategy/coping skills is a good first step.</p>

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<p>Immediately prior to college, D sought confirmation of her ADHD diagnosis so that she would be eligible for services at her college. The diagnosis came back as not needing services and well-maintained with medication. She saw two different counselors her senior year of high school (less than a year ago) and both said that the D did not need further counseling. The D tries to paint the parents as being too judgmental - even though they happily welcome many of D’s friends, they just do not support D’s constant efforts to meet people over the internet, sext and then meet those people. D always promises the counselors that she will change and at least on the surface, appears to make some changes.</p>

<p>I asked friend about sexual abuse and she said that the counselor asked that question and was satisfied that there had been no abuse, by anyone. My friend is afraid that if her D leaves the house, she will sink lower and lower and risk her health and safety even more. I don’t know if this is really about my friend, it’s about what my friend is afraid might happen to her D. She desperately wants to help her D get on the right track.</p>

<p>At this point, they will pay for her college. They have dramatically cut back her cell phone so that she has a reasonable amount of texts available, but unlimited to the parents. They’ve painted this as an opportunity to help the D make better choices about who she texts. While she is away at school, they are afraid to make dramatic and absolute cuts, because they are afraid of what D might do. She’s at a HUGE college - so any personal attention is unexpected.</p>

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<p>They really are heavily into rationalizing - keep paying for a text plan so “she can make better choices about who she texts.” Huh? There is no reason for this D to have any amount of texts available. No one needs this. No one.</p>

<p>They are worried that if they provide appropriate consequences (eg, don’t pay for her cell phone), she will “sink lower.” She is already sinking lower.</p>

<p>They are afraid if they act in pretty much any manner to rein her in, that she will “do something drastic.” They’ve probably been following this fear approach since she was 13. With what results? As an early poster said, the definition of insanity is to continue doing the same thing and expect different results.</p>

<p>These parents need to change their own behavior. I’m sure they are loving parents, may be spot on in how to parent the other kid. They are in over their heads with this kid and THEY are making poor choices, just as she is. Theirs are certainly with the best of intentions. But they need to make different choices. Possibly the only way they will do this is to get top quality parenting counseling.</p>

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<p>I’m a little surprised that this bombshell of a post has gotten so few responses, but I think many of us are in shock that the family would allow a child with this kind of history to go away to school at all, and with a unlimited texting plan to boot! My entirely unprofessional guess is that this girl has serious mental issues that need to be addressed by a psychiatrist with experience in destructive compulsive behaviors. (I can’t imagine what kind of “counselors” would have sent on her merry way.) </p>

<p>I also believe the parents should seek professional counseling to understand how to cope with a manipulative, deceitful and self-destructive child–the answers would seem to be beyond the capabilities people who post here, who are well intentioned, but likely lacking the skills to advise on such a toxic situation.</p>

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<p>Someone is not telling the truth here, because no counselors, certainly no two different counselors, would say that that a young woman who repeatedly arranges sex with people she hasn’t met “needs no further counseling.” So either the young woman didn’t tell the truth to the counselors, or the parents are exaggerating their daughter’s behavior.</p>

<p>But it’s beyond me why parents are paying this young woman’s college fees, let alone her cell phone bills. If it were me I’d be on the phone right now cancelling the cell phone instead of typing this message.</p>

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<p>Get her counseling. She was definitely sexually abused, and if she started this stuff at age 13, then it began at a very, very young age.</p>

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<h1>1 - If she has no other money, cut off the cell phone. I have never heard of any situation where you would need a cell to log into the internet.</h1>

<h1>2 - The daughter has been to counseling 3 times. So at this point, the PARENTS need to be in counseling. If they have continued to pay for her cell phone when she’s using it for these purposes, they need someone to reinstall their backbones.</h1>

<h1>3 - The daughter will probably continue her behavior, and use the internet to do it - or start turning tricks to earn the money for a cell phone, but at least the parents won’t be subsidizing it.</h1>

<p>Beyond that… I don’t know. But it’s clear these parents are kidding themselves that she is going to change. They need to stand up to her and put their foot down. What could she do that would be more drastic?</p>

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<p>She might not have been sexually abused, she might have a mental illness like borderline personality disorder or bipolar disorder. Both can make people act out in sexual ways.</p>

<p>I would cut her cell phone so that the only calls she can make are to the parents and, perhaps, a couple of good influence friends. Texting and internet should be removed from the phone entirely.</p>

<p>If she is doing well at school and is progressing towards graduation, I would continue to pay for it. If she’s not, I would remove her from school away from home and have her live at home while attending a local school. If she objects, give her a deadline to have a job or tell her she has to leave.</p>

<p>The parents should speak with a counselor to get some ideas on how to deal with their daughter without enabling her.</p>

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<p>As a friend, I was sure that counseling was the best route. It’s been amazing to me how little the counseling has helped. The D has gone to counseling twice per week for several months and at the end, the counselor says “she knows what she needs to do and parents, you have to let go”. Friend has done her best to let go and to let D make and suffer the consequences of her own behavior and to limit the resources available to do so. Friend tells the counselors what’s going on and keeps the counselors up to date, but D lies and the counselors just say “D will do what she wants to do.” Friend has been for private counseling within the structure of the family counseling. </p>

<p>D originally intended to attend a local school but then because of extreme behavior friend switched her to a school that was further away. When D is home, she tends to immediately go back to her bad influences and bad contacts from high school, so friend does everything she can to prevent that. At one point during high school, D “ran away” and stayed with a bad influence for a few days. Friend knows that is likely to happen again when D is home for the summer. </p>

<p>D has done okay in school - although it’s unclear how she is doing now. She took very hard courses her first semester and ended up needing to drop two that she was failing. She had B’s in the other classes, but did not end up having a full courseload. D claims she is doing better now and when she does poorly, D claims its because she did not have enough time to finish the test. D was not given extra time on tests even though she has ADD.</p>

<p>D now has minimal texting and unlimited texting to parents. If D sends any pictures, they will cut off her phone. It is so hard to watch friend try to keep her only D as part of her family and to give D a path to climb out when she wants, but continue to struggle. My reason for posting here was to see if there was ANYTHING anyone has done or knows of that could help D see the light or help friend deal with it. It can get worse, but friend hopes it can also get better. Mother and D are bonded on a lot of things and get along really well, but it is as thought D has a secret life. Friend will not fund D’s secret life any longer but worries that the summer is going to be one big battle. It’s hard to let go but it does seem like friend’s only option. But dumping your D into a pit of disaster is not an easy thing to do. I can understand her desperation.</p>

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<p>I agree that the parents need counseling, as well. The mom worries that this summer will be a disaster, and how could it not be? If the parents can come up with a united plan of action and have a therapist they can really count on, their own mental health will take less of a beating. It’s wonderful she has you to turn to as a friend, Lauren! I’m sure you’ll hear from her a lot this summer, too.</p>

<p>There have been some similar threads in the recent past - you might find some helpful advice in them. No quick fixes. <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/945291-daughter-has-left-home.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/945291-daughter-has-left-home.html&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1016833-depression-alcohol-drugs-failing-help.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1016833-depression-alcohol-drugs-failing-help.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>One of our nephews was out of control in high school and for the first few years of college. He’d experienced some negative consequences (parents withholding anything more than minimal financial support, misdemeanor arrests, being kicked out of his dorm). The only thing that helped him to straighten out was a felony arrest for possession, with court-ordered rehab. Otherwise it was going to be an actual jail sentence. This young women may need to face that kind of consequence, if her behavior is within her ability to control. If it isn’t, perhaps she needs in-patient mental health care. Though none of the therapists involved to date seem aware of the extent of the problem. </p>

<p>Thinking of your friend and wishing her the best.</p>

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<p>One thing that has become clear to me over the years is that there are so many lousy therapists. Finding a good one is a full time job. Like quitting smoking, it rarely is successful first time around. I would advise the OP to tell her friend to ask EVERYONE for a referral. So many parents in this situation are reluctant to reveal their private hell, but I think if it leads to finding a great therapist, then it’s worth it.</p>