Like I said in my post, I’m not willing to advise OP to risk this with their parents but clearly you are. I expect the difference is because I’ve seen more than my fair share of bad parent behavior from truly horrific to refusing to complete financial aid forms, among other things.
None of us know the full dynamics that are happening here…which is why many of us are recommending OP engage a trusted third party to help.
This can also result in premeds with borderline stats, but other exceptional qualities, being “counseled” out of applying, to keep the school’s stats higher. But I’m sure that this student is capable of high achievement, what with acceptances to UCLA, UCB, and Penn.
Congrats on your accomplishments.
Your parents have contributed to your current success. Continue to trust they have your best interests at heart.
The grass is not always greener on the other side.
UPenn is not the end all or be all of college. It has weaknesses and might not be a fit for some and that is ok. There are other costs, besides money, in choosing a college.
I suggest that some FGLI students in PA dream of going to sunny UCLA.
Some current FGLI UPenn students describe the challenges.
Parents who haven’t gone to college may not know much about colleges and thus “trust they have your best interest at heart” when the child has researched colleges on their own and parents don’t know anything about these colleges is disingenuous. (OP has stated that they think it’s a State University like UCLA and don’t grasp what Ivy League means.) While we don’t know the family dynamic, the most common immigrant FGLI experience is parents trying to protect their children and trying to keep them close out of love. Most also want what’s best for them - but don’t know what the Higher Education landscape is, what Penn means, etc. It’s impossible to grasp when you don’t have a lifetime of experienxe with the US system.
Same thing with the article: sure, Penn could and should do more for FGLI students and OP definitely should inquire to their FGLI Office about what will happen if (whatever worries their parents)…; it should give more than $4,500 for unpaid/low paid summer internships… but do you know how much UCLA gives? (Hint: they don’t have the means to subsidize a student’s summer.) Penn Students complain the caf closes at 10pm? Check with UCLA Dining Services when the Caf closes.
Will UCLA subsidize a laptop? Health insurance? The state of CA offers great grants for lower income students but it just doesn’t have the means to cover everything students need without loans.
The issue isn’t the university itself, as both are world-class, but resources that one, factually, possesses and can be leveraged for lower income students.
As for PA students dreaming of UCLA, I’m sure there are plenty but they don’t receive any financial aid, v. In this case receiving a more comprehensive FA package.
@magicbirf: have you checked your portal recently? Penn should be offering to fly you in (for free, perhaps with one parent), so you can visit. They know FGLI students don’t have the means to visit colleges, that they need help picturing themselves away at college by being there and figure out what their best fit is. And reach out to them as well as your admission rep with all your and your parents’ questions. They’re all valid and you need their answers to help you decide.
Maybe this was answered and I’m no expert on FA but is the cost delta just $4k/year or is it $4k plus loans at UCLA?
I’m assuming Penn is no loans if it’s meet full need. Not sure about UCLA.
Actually, we only have the OP’s version of the family dynamics here; the parents might have a very different version. I think that people should be very careful about being judgmental regarding family issues and dynamics, and automatically assuming or saying that the parents are just so wrong in their position in regards to the college decision here – when not all of the facts are available to us.
Here, here.
To assume that because we know a few first gen/immigrant families we understand what this family is facing is a little presumptuous.
Including the full details of the FA award from each college. This is all I see.
I don’t know what it includes. @chmcnm asked about loans, which is a good question. I also wonder whose “estimate” it is, and whether that means someone is helping the student to understand their financial aid packages (since the student didn’t say “I estimate”). Is this the GC’s estimate? With numbers in this range, relatively small differences in estimating the cost of each option could also be significant.
@MagicBirf if you’re serious about weighing the pros and cons of each school, the first step has to be Cost Of Attendance. The first step of estimating COA is to figure out exactly what the details are for the cost for you to attend each university.
You should immediately break down each school’s financial package. That is …
Total Cost
minus Financial Aid in the form of Grants/Scholarships
Once you have that, determine if your parents have enough cash to cover the amount left to be paid. If loans are required, then look at …
Amount of DS Loans you (and/or your parents) would have to take out
Amount of private student loans you (and/or your parents) would have to take out.
At this point, you have tuition+room/board figured out. Now it’s time to figure out miscellaneous but necessary expenses. Such as …
How much will it cost to travel back and forth from family home to school?
Extra clothing needed for one location that’s not necessary in the other location?
Is housing guaranteed for all 4 years or will you at some point need to pay to rent an apartment? While universities include on-campus housing costs in grants/scholarships, I don’t know of any who agree to pay for off-campus housing.
Other things…
Figuring out your costs is a huge hurdle. Before trying to convince your parents of any other reason one school makes sense over the other, you should arm yourself with the knowledge of the true cost of each school.
^ this is really important. @MagicBirf do you have adults who can help you with that?
(Btw my assumption is that unless a student discusses a toxic or dysfunctional relationship, the family is loving. And as per TOS, I assume posters are genuine, don’t second guess their post, and answer their question.)
Thank you everyone for the advice!! It’s been very helpful for me reading through as I’m weighing the pros and cons of each school! I’m holding back on my final decision until I consult my teachers and counselor (once spring break ends) but for right now, I’m leaning towards UCLA.
That article reminded me of a thread from another very intelligent student on College Confidential.
USC only guarantees two years of on-campus housing and they include an allowance for an off-campus apartment in the financial aid package when students move off campus. The allowance is the amount for a typical shared double room in an apartment close to campus.
Also to add on, I briefly discussed with my parents and they promised that I have the free choice to go out of state for grad or med school (keeping this on record in case they say anything when that time comes haha). So that’s great but of course that’s far in the future.
Now I’m confused, how did USC come in? Did I miss something?
I hope that you can get to a point with your parents where they can support your free choice at this time, too!
Even if you decide in the end that YOU prefer UCLA, I think you’ll want it to be your own free choice with your parents supporting either option.
Fortunately you still have some time to work things out with your parents, and there’s lots of great info and suggestions in this thread to support you.
If you truly prefer UCLA at this time, then that will definitely help avoid family stress.
If you still want to try to convince your parents to let you go to Penn, then the advice above re: 1) enlisting the help of a knowledgeable adult they trust and 2) calculating your true costs would be important.
A couple of things re: costs.
One – Penn will very likely provide additional funds to cover a winter coat and other warm clothing for students who need it and who are on financial aid. My kid’s school (a different Ivy) did this, and they don’t have nearly the funds that Penn does.
Two – this next is a lot of work, but it can be a big cost. Every college requires students to either have family health insurance that provides what the college considers to be a minimum level of coverage or to purchase the college’s health insurance. The latter can be quite pricy (at one of my kid’s schools, it was about $2k a year; at the other, $4k). Penn states that they will provide that health insurance for free if needed. Regarding UCLA, since you are local to LA, it is likely that your family health insurance will be acceptable to them, but if they don’t think that it is equivalent to their school-sponsored health insurance, then you will still have to purchase their health insurance. You might want to call their financial aid office and ask them how much that insurance will cost and if they will provide a grant for that purpose if you need to buy their health insurance.
I know this is a pain, but it can be a big expense (I was shocked that one of my kid’s schools charged $4k for insurance), so it’s sometimes helpful to know this information ahead of time.
Also, here is a list of some additional grants of what Penn covers, including the cost of food for students who choose to stay on campus during Thanksgiving and Winter breaks.
My bad – I was responding to @EconPop’s comments that schools tend not to provide a stipend/grant for off-campus housing with an example of a college that does.
I’m proud of you for discussing this with your parents. You need to have more than a brief discussion. Ask them to set aside time when both of you can express your thoughts as well as pros and cons of each of your options.
You don’t need to answer in this thread, but you mentioned that you had to fill out most of the financial information yourself. Is one of the reasons that your parents want you close because they need your help (translating, caring for family members, working in family business, etc.)?
On the one hand, UCLA is an outstanding school. But not being allowed to go to UPenn for half the price (should still be less, even with travel expenses…) would be like buying a 40" TV for $800 when you could have had a 60" TV for $600… when you really would have preferred the 60-incher. That is a head-scratcher.
If my kid got into an Ivy and it was easily affordable, and they wanted to go… I cannot imagine any circumstance under which I would not allow it. I’m not going to get in the way of an outstanding opportunity and a great value. Like the guy in Princess Bride says… it would be inconceivable.
OP, maybe put it in those TV terms for them to illustrate Penn’s quality and what a great deal it is at $4k plus travel expenses.