Advice on applying early to Yale, Duke, Harvard, Stanford

Parents Forum
1

I am trying to determine whether it is worth the risk for my daughter to apply EA to Yale or Harvard, or should she apply early to Duke.

From Northern California
Female
Attend a very strong private school with a good reputation – sends students to good schools

GPA – 4.1 (top possible is 4.2)
Top 10% of class – no class rankings – but not #1 or #2
SAT 2280 (Writing 780, Math 700, English 750)

School President
Freshman Class President
Founder and President of the Debate Club – won best delegate at Stanford, MIT
Research at Stanford with a professor – will write a strong recommendation
Real work experience at 2 internet startups
Runs a food Instagram with over 4000 users
Attended School for Ethics and Global Leadership in Washington DC second semester junior year –

Her interests are global affairs and entrepreneurship.

She liked Duke but is very concerned about the social life – not excited about Greek life at all so nervous about that.

How big a mistake is it to apply early to HYS and then risk not getting into Duke. She also likes Northwestern and Tufts.

College counselor is strongly encouraging early decision to Duke or Northwestern because although they think she is a strong candidate for HYS, she may be giving up Duke and Northwestern by not applying there early.

2

ED (Duke or Northwestern) is only appropriate if the school is a clear first choice, with no need to compare financial aid offers. If she has reservations about Duke due to the fraternity/sorority scene (or otherwise), then it seems like a bad idea for her to apply ED to Duke.

Since all of these schools are “reach for everyone” type of schools, the most likely result is that she will be rejected by all of them. But then she could get a fine education at a UC or other school that is not quite as selective.

3

Keep in mind that the majority of Duke students don’t rush, and about half of the sororities at Duke are not residential. Also note that each frat and sorority has its own character. I lived next to a frat my sophomore year and a floor below another frat my junior year, and the difference was night and day. The first was unabashedly southern, conservative, and heavily into partying. The second frat was full of marching band kids, gamers, and other laidback types – totally different and a terrific bunch of guys. Most Greek parties except mixers are open to anyone, so you can participate as much or little in Greek life as you’d like.

In any case, Duke has a very active campus, and there’s an enormous number of activities to do at any given time – volunteering, music performances, art showings and wine nights at the museum, open mic nights at the Coffeehouse, board game nights in the dorms, jazz nights at the Mary Lou, salsa and other dancing groups, intramural sports…etc. For those who like the outdoors, there’s the 7000 acres of Duke Forest, and you can rent gear from Duke. Duke students often receive free or heavily discounted tickets to DPAC and local athletic events (e.g. Hurricanes hockey tickets). Much of Durham has become gentrified and rather hipster, and it does quite well in rankings of affordability, food/restaurants, and level of education.

http://www.dcvb-nc.com/cr/durham_accolades.pdf

For those who like the environment of a close-knit group but are wary of Greek life, Duke offers co-ed themed living groups (arts, entrepreneurship, languages, Asian culture, etc.).

That depends. How happy would she be at her matches and/or safeties? If she likes them a lot, then there’s much less risk involved in not EDing to Duke or NU.

Given RD rates at the most selective universities these days, I’m not so sure “a clear first choice” should be a must. “100% sure you’d be happy to attend” may be the better requirement. The two are not quite the same. I am not a fan of ED, but in practical terms it does provide a noticeable boost.

4

IMO, she should EA to one of the high reaches. She’s a strong candidate from a private school that sounds like having a track record of sending students to elite colleges. Looking at her profile relative to her peers, there’s no good reason to believe she won’t get in a top tier school regular round. Of course, every move has its potential as well as risks. Would she be ok in attending another “Duck level” school if she ends up not getting in Duke? Tying your goal to one particular school this early is bad form anyway.

5

If you think that she might get some more awards/achievements during the fall of her senior year, then you may not want to do early at Stanford as they have the highest percentage of absolute rejection (vs. deferment) during early. Once they reject you, you are no longer considered during the regular decision. So if she gets any late awards that might significantly enhance her app, it would be too late.

6

SAT math is a little low. Is she Asian Americans?

1 Like
7

Your daughter would be competitive in the HYS applicant pool. I think students should apply early where they have good chances but could use a little boost. From your description I’d say your daughter has excellent odds of getting into Duke and if she has some misgivings applying early there might be a mistake

8

Agree with Warblersrule - Duke is not a school where you need to be concerned about fitting in if you don’t go Greek - they are there, but there are plenty of things to do w/o Greeks.

As for a decision, it is well documented that Duke ED provides better percentage odds than RD (about 25% vs <10%). I believe that spread is probably much less for Yale or Harvard EA vs RD. From a pure statistical basis, if she wants a top-10 school, ED at Duke seems a better choice for her. However, as others have mentioned, she needs to be 100% committed to going there, and you need to be able to afford it (and not want to weigh merit $$ at all).

She has some good, diverse ECs (which also relate to her intended path), and if she can write well about them, she would be a strong candidate at most schools. She really needs to decide if she is prepared to go on an ED school. If not, she should take her chances with a combination of EA and RD.

9

My philosophy is to EA/ED to your dream school so you won’t have regret no matter what happens. Let’s say you get into Duke by ED but your dream school is Yale, then you will always wonder what would happen if you EAed to Yale.

10

@joannaas , are you the mother or the daughter? In another thread, you say you are applying, but in this thread you say that your daughter is applying. So which is it???

11

I did not see the parent section at first so asked as my daughter – then realized that I was in the wrong section. Thanks so much for these answers. They have been incredibly thoughtful and helpful. Much more clarifying than our college advisor.

12

If she could determine her own fate, what would be her first choice?

13

Yale – but does not want to risk not getting into Duke or Northwestern

14

If she didn’t like the social scene at Duke…why does she care so much about getting accepted there?

15

HYS are incredibly hard to get in in the early round. They typically take only those with “big hooks” such as recruited athletes, high achieving URM, and those with major national/international recognition etc. For the majority of early applicants, you are essentially buying yourself a fighting chance by not tying yourself down too soon with an ED school. But if she is that much into Duke, maybe she should ED there. ED does increase the odds.

16

And again I ask…how “into Duke” is this student? She did not like the social scene there.

Wondering who wants Duke…the kiddo or the parent.

17

Mom really does not care. Truly. But wants her to get in someplace she wants to go.

18

Like @panpacific said, ED at HYP includes alot of hooked kids that would have gotten in regardless. Thus, their ED rates are not applicable if you are not hooked. There is a benefit to ED, but it is not as strong as the stats say. If she is going the ED route, she should pick her top favorite school.

19

HYP have SCEA, not ED.

If she prefers Yale to Duke, she should SCEA Yale, but also apply to some of the good rolling admissions schools. http://admissions.yale.edu/faq/single-choice-early-action#t184n1810

SCEA helps. It “sends the message” that you prefer Yale to Harvard, Princeton, and Stanford. That matters.

Note that if she is deferred she can make a decision to apply to an ED 2 school and that Tufts is on that list. http://admissions.tufts.edu/apply/first-year-students/ However, if admitted she has to withdraw her Yale app.

Yale and Duke are VERY different places. If she gets into Duke ED, she’ll always wonder “Could I have gotten into Yale?”

20

fwiw, a classmate to my son a couple years ago with similar profile to daughter (including school type, debate achievements, etc) was accepted to Harvard SCEA, then got RD accepted to Duke, then won the Robertson, only to turn down that down to land back where he started with his SCEA at Harvard…and apparently loving it.