Advice on what is common/appropriate for a Shiva?

Parent Cafe
1

I currently live in a fairly large condo building and there was a notice in the elevator yesterday that one of our residents passed away at 87 from a sudden heart attack with notice of the date and time of the funeral at a local cemetery for Jewish people tomorrow along with the date of 3 Shivas at 2 of his 4 sons’ homes tomorrow through Saturday with their addresses and phone numbers stating at the bottom “all are welcome to join our family as we honor our father’s memory, grieve for his loss, and celebrate his life.” They even listed that they would be attending regular services on Friday for Kaddish (which I’d never heard of) and we were invited to attend that as well.

It seems a bit strange to invite an entire building to all these events, but this man was like the neighborhood greeter and I suspect they know that. There are huge planter boxes with cement walls about the height of a bench on each side of the entry and when I first came to look at this place about 2.5 years ago and was waiting for the real estate agent out front, he was sitting on one of them with his old dog and was the first person I talked to. After moving in, I learned that he sat out there daily with the dog, everyone coming or going would stop to talk to him including all the locals in the neighborhood who walked by every day with their dogs, and he always had a pocket full treats for them. He’d ask how I was, ask about my family and tell me about his kids and grand-kids. I don’t really “know” anyone else in the building, but I felt like I knew him.

So the question is, what is appropriate to do/attend in this case? If I went, I really wouldn’t know anyone and don’t really know anything about a Shiva. I didn’t even know he was Jewish (never mentioned it), so I don’t think he was particularly devout, but would a funeral at a Jewish cemetery and multiple Shiva sittings over a period of days with rabbis officiating indicate otherwise?

I did some research and read it’s appropriate to take or send food, but is this really something everyone in a condo building is expected to do, and should it be kosher? There was no mention of places to donate $ to on the notice. I’ve also ready you just walk in and don’t knock when entering a house for a Shiva (really?), that people sometimes take off their shoes and sit on the floor or on low stools. Are these things more common than not? Do people wear coats and ties to a Shiva? I always have when attending funerals and to homes after, but it would seem strange to stand around or sit on the floor in formal dress with no shoes. If it makes a difference, both sons holding the local Shiva sittings are ivy educated attorneys in their 50s who I believe are very well off based on various things he’s told me, and the addresses of their homes listed on the notice would seem to confirm this, but I don’t know if this means I should expect the Shiva sittings to be more formal or not.

Things just won’t be the same without him and I actually had a hard time sleeping last night. I saw a fire engine out front a couple of nights ago and was worried that it was for his wife. She has a lot of severe health issues, he took care of her, and this wouldn’t have been the first time he’d had to call 911 for her. I never expected it to be him, and I’m sure she’ll no longer be able to live alone here. Just walking out of the building seems lonely now knowing I’ll never see him or his sweet old dog out there again.

But would it really be meaningful to them for some random resident in his condo building show up? Or are they just being polite? Again, I wouldn’t know anyone and or have anyone to talk to . . . . not that I’m particularly shy, but still. I’m thinking maybe it’s more appropriate to just send a card - or possibly just go to the service at the cemetery if anything at all, but I don’t know.

2

I can’t advise you on shiva customs, but I am absolutely certain that your showing up at one of them and telling his family about your experiences and feelings about him would be incredibly valuable to his family.

3

I don’t see this as any different than publishing an obituary in the newspaper. The day and time of the Shiva is listed, and anyone reading the newspaper can attend.

Lots of newspapers have online obituaries now…and maybe the over 85 folks in the building are better reached with this announcement in the building.

I don’t see a problem with it at all.

4

Yes it would be meaningful. It is considered a mitzvah (a good deed) to pay a shiva call. You don’t go every night. You go once, at your convenience, during the hours that they are receiving visitors. Wear neat, casual clothes, not a suit. YOU don’t sit on low stools, the mourners do (if they want to).

It is correct that you just walk in. The mourners can’t be expected to answer the door and greet every visitor. In fact, it is custom that they do not proactively greet you. You just walk in (the door will be unlocked) and find your way to the mourners. If he had four sons, it will likely be crowded with family members, friends, neighbors, and co-workers. It will not be a somber atmosphere, like a wake. It will almost seem like a social gathering. Once you find his sons, you introduce yourself, tell them how sorry you are for their loss, tell them how you knew their father. You should also give tell them a memory of him—the one you wrote about is perfect (sitting outside on the planter). Depending on how the conversation is going and ow busy they are, you might continue socializing with them. Or you would help yourself to something to eat, take a seat, and make small talk with other visitors.

As for sending food: It would be appropriate for someone in your condo complex to take up a collection ($5 each?) to order a fruit platter or a cookie platter.

Don’t send flowers. Jews don’t do flowers.

5

Thank you for the feedback. Really appreciate it.

The cultural/custom aspect was throwing me for a bit of a loop. Since I won’t know anyone and it is likely to be mostly family and friends, I might be just walking in, offering condolences and leaving fairly quickly. I read that sending flowers is inappropriate, but didn’t know if it would be inappropriate to show up without food? If so, what would I bring and should I assume it should be kosher? Again, I don’t really know anyone else in the building other than saying hello now and then in the elevator, or being introduced to them by this guy out front. Everyone stopped to talk to him, so he’d always be introducing us to each other, but I usually never ran into them after that. Again, it’s a somewhat large building and most people just do their own thing. I don’t know who would organize taking up a collection and sending something. He was on the condo board, so perhaps they will. I’ll keep my eye out for a notice.

Yes, obituaries list the date and time of services, but I don’t remember them inviting everyone attending over to the family home after with home addresses and phone numbers listed publicly. I’ve only been to one other Jewish funeral for a close friend’s father in college. I attended a huge service at a temple (maybe 1,000 people) and then a very small graveside service for close family only – except for me because she wanted me there beside her. They were all reading Hebrew and I had no idea what was going on, but I didn’t care. I was happy to be there for her. I don’t remember a Shiva though, or at least not a formal one, and again, they didn’t invite all 1000 people at the service to come over. It was just for family and closer friends.

6

Another Gentile here who has paid several shiva calls. We dressed nicely (plain business casual) and brought a cake from a kosher bakery to one house. To another, who were not as observant, I brought homemade cake . When you walk in, you can expect to see the mirrors all covered and people congregating in various rooms near the kitchen. One family had a lovely display of a book of interviews of Holocaust survivors (the deceased was one of the interviewees). We just expressed our sympathy to the family, listened to their stories (we didn’t know the deceased in a few cases) and then left after half an hour or so. Interestingly, there was no alcohol served at any of the houses, unlike in my boozy WASP family!

You should always bring food! People in mourning don’t need to be troubled with feeding those who come to comfort them.

7

It depends how observant they are as to whether the mirrors will be covered, there will be low chairs for the family, etc. Some shivas are just quiet social events with nothing special to show it’s a shiva. I’ve been to several of them, and it can vary tremendously.

But you can’t go wrong with bringing a cake from a kosher bakery.

8

That’s why I suggested fruit. You don’t have to worry about the Kosher thing :slight_smile:

You don’t need to be “invited” to a shiva. You just go if you want to pay your respects.

Doesn’t matter if you don’t know anyone. It’s done all the time. Go if you want to pay your respects. Sounds like he was an important fixture in your life.

9

Right? Ha!

Yes, but I also read that sometimes they don’t need/want all that food, Imagine if everyone in the building showed up bringing food? Also, when I typed in the address of one of the son’s homes, it popped up on Zillow as being worth about $7 million, and the other son’s home wasn’t far behind, so I’m guessing these aren’t the “bring a lasagna so they have something to eat” type families. Maybe that’s an incorrect assumption, though. Maybe it’s always appropriate - even if they end up throwing it out.

10

Bringing food is par for the course and there won’t be too much of it because the food is also for the people coming to offer condolences (so you should feel free to take). Besides, it’s not about the grieving family not being able to afford it, it’s for their comfort, for etiquette, and to take the burden off of them having to feed their visitors.

If you have a Trader Joes near you then you really can’t go wrong with their babka.

11

Many people bring food, but you don’t have to at all - the important thing is to just show up (yes and just walk in if they door is unlocked) and spend a few minutes with any family members, telling them your remembrances, which I am sure they will appreciate. If there are a lot of people there you may have to wait a few minutes until you can catch one of the sons, or grandchildren, or whoever. you can get a cup of coffee, chat with anyone else, or not. you do not have to stay long unless you want to; its perfectly fine to spend a half hour or so. its a very nice thing to do. dress casually, no need to dress up (but i wouldn’t wear shorts or workout clothes).

12

I’m going to dissent on the food (but agree with #10 above). I have never been to a shiva that was short of food. I have rarely been to a shiva that had less than 2-3 x the amount of food the guests and family could possibly consume. If you aren’t close to the family, you don’t need to bring anything.

Shivas serve the same function as a wake or viewing in other cultures. The Jewish tradition – which only the most observant Jews follow strictly – is to bury the deceased as quickly as possible (but not on the Sabbath), and without waiting to arrange a big funeral, and then the family essentially holds a series of open houses where people come to pay their condolences. The benefit is that there is a brief religious ceremony (15-20 minutes, max, not counting time spent talking about the deceased) when the guests are there, at which the traditional prayer of mourning (Kaddish Yatom) may be said if there is a minyan present (ten adult Jews, only counting males if you are traditionally observant). Since most families can’t muster a minyan on their own, it helps to have visitors.

If you don’t feel comfortable going to the shiva, you can send a condolence note instead, and that is sure to be appreciated. But don’t worry about being put on the spot or embarrassed, or anything like that. No one will expect you to do anything religious, and whoever leads the service will tell people when to stand, sit, etc. (or you can just figure it out by looking at others). The Hebrew parts of the service will be incomprehensible to you, but rest assured that they will also be incomprehensible to almost everyone else, too, although the Jewish people there may be used to it. No one will mind, either, if you leave before the service begins, or arrive late enough to miss it.

13

I’m not going to lie – going to a shiva for the first time will probably be pretty weird if you aren’t used to the traditions. Compared to Christian/secular ceremonies, shivas are not particularly somber, although they do have somber moments, of course. They are truly a celebration of that person’s life; people talk, they laugh, tell stories. Not everyone at a shiva necessarily knows the person hosting it (and I’ve actually been to a shiva or two where I didn’t even know the deceased, I just wanted to support one of the family members) so you won’t be out of place at all. It is nice to bring food (generally something sweet), just as a sign of support and for other guests to nibble on.

Depending on how religious the family is, immediate family members might sit on a box rather than a chair or sofa; they also might cover all of the mirrors in the house and do a minyan – a gathering of ten or more men for prayer – to say the Mourner’s Kaddish. The only other thing I would say is before ringing any sort of doorbell or knocking, just try opening the door; it will most likely be unlocked.

14

As a non Jew who has gone to shiva over the years, unless the people were particularly observant Jews (I have been to one where the family was Orthodox), it is like other people described, it is more a time and place to give condolences to the family and also to share stories about the deceased. The ones I went to were more about celebrating the life of the person and the people they touched and they can be at times more joy and laughter than tears (one gentleman I worked with, who had quite a sense of humor, apparently came from a family like that, when I went to where they were holding Shiva they were telling his favorite stories and jokes, some of his sons were telling jokes about their father, jokes he told about himself:).

15

All of the above information is correct and most useful. And things do vary a bit depending on how observant the family is. Perhaps you can find another building resident to attend the shiva with. That would likely make it more comfortable for you. And if you decide not to attend, I’m sure that a write a note to the family that include one or two remembrances of the gentleman who passed away would be appreciated as well.

16

I think your presence and telling your memories to his sons is lovely and quite enough. I don’t think you have to bring food given that you weren’t close to him.

17

In my experience, a shiva is just like visiting hours before a funeral, although less formal.

18

Just a shiva anecdote I thought of:

Once, I went to a lovely shiva – very lively, lots of food, laughter, just an overall celebration of life. At the door, I had to physically stop myself from telling the host “thank you, I had a great time!” I completely forgot that we were there to mourn a death. :stuck_out_tongue:

19

When one of my parents died, we had shiva at my sister’s house. We had so much food,mthat sadly, a LOT was thrown away. Close friends and our cousins arranged for huge party trays. Plus we sisters also ordered food. If you want to bring food, fine…but it’s not a requirement. We were just happy to see everyone who came to pay their respects.

When the other parent died…it was the dead of winter…think 10 below zero and tons of snow. We had that shiva at a catering facility…no worry about food, and guests were not allowed to bring food. But some friends did arrange for food at our home so we wouldn’t have to cook for the first couple of weeks.

20

Thanks again to all who chimed in. It’s all been very helpful. I was raised by a WASP mother from the south who was a stickler on etiquette, then converted to Catholicism when she married my father, so I have all the WASPolic traditions down (or is it CathoWASP?), but I haven’t really had much exposure to traditional Jewish culture.

I’ve decided to go to one of the Shiva sittings on my own. Honestly, I’m not shy and tend to dive into things even when I find them intimidating or out of my comfort zone at first. I’ve traveled all over Europe on my own meeting people wherever I go who tend to take me under their wing, and even visited colleges and moved in all on my own back in the day. What’s going to a Shiva on my own compared to all that, right? I’m sure it will be fine.

Still not sure if I should bring anything, but I’ll just wing it. I liked the fruit idea. I’ve never been much of a sweets person (I don’t even drink soda), so I’d be the last person to know what to bring along those lines, but the babka was also a helpful suggestion. Made me think of the Seinfeld episode, so I’ll make sure to go to a good Jewish bakery and go with chocolate if I go that route. I wouldn’t want to show up with a lesser babka. :wink:

However insignificant my presence might be compared to others who knew him far better over the course of his life, I just think it would be nice to let them know he continued to make a difference in people’s lives up until his last day.