OK, one more question for all you kind people in the know.
I would prefer to go to tonight’s sitting if possible since it is from 5 to 10 rather than the one tomorrow which is 2:00 to 5:00 (sort of in the middle of the day), so I just called a Jewish bakery with the highest Yelp rating to verify they were kosher. While some reviewers referred to it as being kosher, their website didn’t and I thought I should check. They told me all their ingredients are kosher, but if the family was very strict, I might have to buy from someone else.
So how safe am I with all kosher ingredients vs. a 100% kosher final product? Do mostly only Orthodox Jews follow very strict kosher guidelines?
As I stated before, I didn’t even know he was Jewish until now and just from various things he’s told me about local restaurants he would go to with his grandkids, I know they can’t be all that strict (if kosher at all). Also, the woman on the phone was soooo kind and helpful when I explained the situation, kept calling me “honey,” and even said she’s make something very special if I could wait until tomorrow, so I would really like to buy from them vs. the 100% kosher bakery with more mixed reviews.
Maybe I’m obsessing too much, but ya can’t say I’m not making the effort to do this right. Watch me get there and see a big ham.
I think you are fine bringing anything, if they are strict they just won’t eat it. I am Jewish and I’ve made shiva calls, and I think you will be just fine with whatever you do. It’s really the thought and by reading this thread you are extremely thoughtful. If you buy something from a store you can easily see on the package if it’s kosher…there is a small symbol that says OU with a circle around it, or OUD, or a K. It’s literally on most everything you find in the supermarket. If not, it’s not kosher (even if the ingredients are kosher, it’s the rabbi who has to bless it and also the factory where it’s made needs to follow kosher laws). Good luck!
@greeny8 , thank you for the info! I had no idea about the OU/OUD/K thing. Good to know. All these Jewish delis and bakeries bakeries (fully kosher and not) seem to be right in the same area within a couple/few blocks of each other and not far from the home where the sitting is, so maybe I’ll just head that way and see what I come up with.
I think you’re overthinking it. You don’t even know if they keep kosher, much less if they are uber-strict about it. The vast majority of Jews in the US don’t keep kosher at all. Just go buy it please :-).
My experience with Jewish folks, from the casual to the orthodox, is that I suspect they will be touched by you going to sit shiva for the deceased, and to show your respects to the deceased and the family, and that I doubt they will get their nose bent out of joint if someone does something unwittingly that violates tradition when the person themselves is not Jewish (I can’t speak for every Jewish person out there, obviously). If you bring something that technically isn’t kosher, they will appreciate the gesture and those who aren’t observant will likely eat it:)
I’m back from the bakery I called and the woman remembered me. She’s originally from Israeli, so I asked for her advice right when another regular (Jewish) customer of hers happened to walk in and started telling me all of her favorite things there. So I left it to them. They both suggested finger size things and between the two of them, they picked out an assortment of all kinds of small cookies they said are popular for Shiva. The woman who worked there was so nice and insisted on giving me some free just to eat myself. I know I said I’m not much of a sweets eater, but they use some kind of cream cheese dough and man . . . so good.
Thanks for the offer about the wake info but I actually married a Catholic man a couple of years after that first experience. Yup, 8 years in an Orthodox yeshiva and I wind up with a Catholic boy.
The shivas I have attended recently all featured covered mirrors but, as I said, they were more traditional. I have also seen multiple location shivas recently. A friend’s dad passed. She and one sibling came from out of state. They did part of the shiva at the family home, where a third sibling had lived with the dad, and the rest upstate, where the remaining sibling lived. Nowadays, with families more spread out, it makes sense. When my grandfather died, we couldn’t afford to go to California for the funeral so we sat shiva at our apartment. I still remember walking 80 year old people down the steps 11 flights in the dark after the lights went out in the 1977 blackout!
As for kosher, I generally recommend it because you want to have something for people who do keep kosher. Although we aren’t kosher ourselves, I had my children’s Bar Mitxvot in kosher facilities.
And by the way, your dad and his tradition sound awesome. My daughter would have been one of those kids who worked on her routine for days before.
OP, you have done more than your part, showing care and respect.
One of the most touching moments after my mom’s sudden death, was that a patient of mine came to my house with hand made rolled sandwiches. (They saw the obit, and looked up my address). Another relative answered the door, and thanked this couple. Well, the sandwiches included meat and cheese, which I have never eaten. The tray was kept in the kitchen, but were so tasty that guests finished them the first night. None of my Kosher friends were offended, as they never saw these sandwiches. The hours this couple made into these beautiful sandwiches were well appreciated by many. Just the memory of this couples work makes me sentimental.
I’m not Jewish and know nothing of those traditions. However, I will say that it was speaking to the people I didn’t know who knew my mom that made it really special at her service. I knew our family and friends missed her - but hearing from her building neighbors, nurses, even employees at her building really meant something to me. That someone liked my mom enough, who didn’t know us, and came out of their way to pay their respects was very special and touching to me.
Good advice here from the posters. Food is the thing to bring. You did well, @1Dreamer. One thing we do is to bring a meal for later in the week or month, when the crowds have gone and the grievers are on their own but still dealing with a) loss; and b) the mind-numbing complexity of sorting out insurance, finances, death certificates, pensions, etc.
If anyone is interested, it all went fine, but wasn’t the new cultural experience I was hoping for. Not at all traditional from what I could tell. No water pitcher, no covered mirrors, boxes, etc. It was at a huge gated home backing up to a country club fairway, and the attire was more business formal than business casual with most of the men in full suits with ties, and it was catered with a seriously enormous spread. I’ve been to weddings with less food. My paltry offering from the bakery was taken by one of the staff right after I walked in and was never again, so I’m laughing at how much worried about it.
I met all 4 sons, two of the grandsons, and spent quite a bit of time talking to his wife who is very sweet and can hold a conversation just fine, but said she doesn’t know anyone in the building and didn’t remember me, so I think her memory is not great. They’d been married 68 years. Wow. They were all happy I came and said it was great to hear stories about him from people who knew him outside their immediate circle, so mission accomplished there. The son who owned the home immediately wanted my email so he could send me stories about his dad that various people put together and sent me an email with his phone number right away to make it went through and we could stay in contact, and then took me around introducing me to the rest of the family.
I stayed for a couple of hours chatting away, but was a little surprised when I was saying my goodbyes and they said “so we’ll see you tomorrow?” When I said I didn’t think I could make that (it’s from 2 to 5 today), they said “so we’ll see you Sunday then?” (I thought you were only expected to go to one!) Then the wife started telling everyone I was going to take care of her now.
I’m not sure, but I may have just been drafted into a large Jewish family.
We told you you were overthinking! I’m not at all surprised that there were none of the traditions. And now you know that really, all you needed were the good social graces and caring heart that you clearly have, and it can get you through anything!
Very thoughtful discussion here. You have done a mitzvah by making a shiva call and more than one call is not needed. Lots of discussion here about shiva traditions and practices and since you’ve been and gone, not much to add. I will say that in my husband’s extended family who are very Orthodox, men and women do not mingle or sit in the same rooms, no food is served or expected but frequently there are lots of little boxes to leave charity donations or tzedakah. Having grown-up in an non-observant Jewish family, it was a new world for me, for sure.
It is lovely that you went and it seems like the entire family truly appreciated your coming (even without knowing how much care you put into the food you brought). There is no need to pay a second condolence call but when the time comes it sounds like they would appreciate hearing a story from you. I’m sure it is very comforting to the family to know that people in the building cared enough about their father to come to the house.
@1Dreamer If the world was filled with people as caring, thoughtful, and open to learning about new cultures as you, it would be a much better place.
This is a little bit off-topic but is also about Jewish customs so I am going to ask. What is the significance of the pebbles left on Jewish tombstones? I have been taking my morning walk in the neighborhood cemetery and many of the graves have a small pile of stones.
There are some deeper kabbalistic/spiritual interpretations but the main idea is just to honor the dead by acknowledging that they’re not forgotten, we’re still thinking of them and visiting them. “Someone was here and someone remembers you.” It’s considered more… sturdy, I guess? than flowers because stones won’t wilt or die.
Glad the shiva worked out, it sounds like it was lovely.
As has already been mentioned you do not need to pay another call. It’s very common to have it catered but I’m sure your cookies will be put out at some point in the next few days.
People might have been dressed if they came to the home following the funeral and burial which is customary. People also often pay a call after work on their way home so are more formally dressed.
My bio father, who was Jewish, died in 1974. Due to circumstances way too long for this post, I did not find out til 1992 and I did not have the opportunity to visit his grave til 1994. When my mother and I flew out to visit his grave, we each brought stones from our own houses and put them on his grave. It’s just symbolic of remembrance, because stones are permanent.
You are completely right.
