“On the flipside, it seems there’s no issues with large groups of women holding long gripe sessions in school, work, and out at restaurants/coffee shops. While it seems natural to them and widely accepted in our society, I’d feel it very odd to be a part of such a social activity. While many mostly female friends state they find such sessions to be helpful in making themselves feel better”
This is often very true and I’ve never understood it myself as a female. My husband is my best friend first. Why would I want to go bitching about him to other women? I sure wouldn’t want my husband to do the same to me. Same goes for complaining to other family members. it reminds me of one of the reasons I find myself gravitating towards men at cocktail party type functions. One time, I looked around and realized I was the only female with a group of husbands. All the women had gone into the kitchen to talk about their sex lives over cocktails. I don’t get that.
It’s a social convention that we put our best face forward. Even on CC. I’m not comfortable with a young-ish male critiquing how women speak to each other or lean on friends. Not counting women who tend to gripe endlessly for the sake of some attention, most women learn from each other, get some perspective, move on, while the social scientists and observers say men tend to “position” themselves, even among friends. Read up on gamesmanship.
My female friends don’t gather in the kitchen, so to say. I know it exists. Most griping is sporadic and private, the one first testing whether the other will listen. (It takes two.)
OP has an issue and both men and women have responded. I find the perspectives interesting. The next move is really up to OP. Does she want to do something about her own and her husband’s situations, put the energy into trying to make it better? (And I do mean actively, not just reacting in therapy sessions.) Will she CYA, which is a fine move in the interim, to protect her interests?
Just because someone has different ways of expressing and coping with personal problems or other difficulties than you do doesn’t make it “odd.”
You don’t get that women and men may generally speaking approach life’s challenges differently from each other? Or that perhaps YOUR way is not the ONLY appropriate way? Or that women frequently lean on each other without necessarily “griping for hours”? I think we all know some negative Nellies, and sure, they are tiresome. And they aren’t all females, either.
If you feel female friends’ confidances are “EMOTIONALLY DRAINING,” then you only have yourself to blame for continuing to allow that dynamic to continue.
I’m the one that posted that and, as an introvert, I find talking about anything for three hours emotionally draining. I am my wife’s confidante, my signature is on the paperwork for her business, and it is part of my husbandly duties to listen to her concerns. In that case, there weren’t three hours worth of new topics. It was the same few issues recycled many times. I had just driven six hours and was already tired so it was tough to hang in there that long.
One reason I married my wife was her energy and stamina. Our dynamic involves her venting on occasion and I listen attentively, nod and agree. It’s what she needs and it works for us. She knows she does it, usually limits it ten minutes or so, but she had had a tough day on Friday and Saturday and I was gone. The pressure built up over the weekend and needed to come out.
It works for us. But 90% of the time we are both happy, talking about happy things. 90% happy = successful marriage. If life affected her to the point where our interactions were mainly negative, then we would, by all measures, have an unhappy marriage. Knowing fm had a string of stress-inducing events in her life, I mentioned it as an introspective topic for her.
FM also mentioned that she and her husband are having NO sex. That is a deal-killer for a guy, marriage over. My wife is in primary care and has these discussions with people every day, plus she writes the Viagra prescriptions, so has a lot of data points on this.
When I first read the post I thought the husband was probably a jerk. However I have gone back and read some of FM’s posts. The Husband went back to school for his MSW a few years ago, was with CASA for a number of years and they wanted to become foster parents but aren’t able to because of FM’s son’s felony conviction and the kids are now all out of college.So it looks like this husband is someone who cares about people/kids. I think it’s entirely possible that now that all the kids are out of the house realizes they longer have common goals/interests or sex. So maybe he is just tired of it all and wants out and is unfortunately saying it in the wrong way… I’m not saying it’s right the way he is doing it but just thinking he’s probably not a real scum bag either.
I never shared with friends or family how frustrated I was with H’s behavior and how stressed I felt. I internalized it all and it was unhealthy. After some unfortunate circumstances I went to a therapist who told me I should be able to share how I feel - even when it’s negative - with friends I trust. That it is healthy to get feedback. The situation I was in was not normal but it was normalized for me. Since then I been able to be vulnerable and share more and I’m much happier. I agree, I don’t like public b**** sessions. Not my style. But a group of women sharing can be a good thing.
It is good to talk things out when they are bothering you. It is a stress relief otherwise you feel like a pressure cooker and the stress effects your overall wellbeing. Also having other outlets like exercise when you are dealing with very stressful situations is helpful. It just clears your mind and you feel more energized. I just think women and men handle stress differently. It is nice to have a supportive group of friends just to get it out of your system and realize others may have the same concerns too. It also depends on your personality. Some people keeps their worries to themselves and others have to let it out and share it to feel better. Everyone has different coping mechanisms. Everyone needs someone that they can count on when they are faced with difficult issues. It is probably a very lonely feeling when you don’t have someone close with whom you can feel you can share your problems with.
I agree. During the absolute worst time of my life (family crisis), my treadmill literally saved my sanity, and probably my physical health as well. When I would finish my session, I felt like I had just had the most refreshing, stress-killing cry of my life. I felt calm. My problems were still there, but my heart wasn’t racing, I wasn’t cold sweating and feeling my blood pressure rise, and I didn’t feel so hopeless and powerless.
On that note, I’m going to jump on my bicycle and go for a ride. I’ve got a new audio book to listen to as well. Two birds, one stone.
Men don’t complain about personal issues to other men? I find that very funny. My husband is in construction and the men on construction sites talk plenty – all…of…the…time. I doubt they’re an exception.
I know who’s thinking about leaving his wife and 3 small children because she never feels like having sex. Well boo hoo. Maybe if he spent less time disappearing in his shop after work and more time helping her juggle the kids after school activities and household chores (while she completes her college degree) she’d have the energy.
I know who quit having sex with his wife after she refused to have her tubes tied when their 5th kid was born “because (she’d) already be in the hospital.” And I know how long she put up with it before she filed for divorce.
I know which men are cheating, which ones are married to women who use sex as a weapon, and I know how long it generally takes before they cave in. I know who overspends, or believes their wife does, and how much debt they’re taking on to pay for college.
The only difference I can see between men and women is that women gossip about relationship issues (how they feel about disagreements they’re having with other people) while men gossip about sex and money. But gossip is gossip and some members of both genders do it, as your own posts would indicate. What are the conversations you have with all your cousins, friends, acquaintances, and coworkers if not gossip?
It’s funny how posters on this very thread state male perspectives on some possible issues are appreciated…only for some to be dismissive and even attack messenger when it is offered…
Talk about sending mixed messages…do you want those perspectives or do you really want an echo chamber?
FYI: I was talking about strangers whom I just met or casual acquaintances with whom I have not had much previous acquaintance and I’m talking about chronic negative venting and/or gripe sessions lasting for hours over …not an occasional need for emotional support for rare emergencies and serious life crises. Basically situations where I feel and have suggested a therapist may be more effective in helping them closer to resolving or at least better understanding the issues/problems they had.
My female friends don’t do this to me beyond the extreme rare emergency cases or serious life crises as with my male friends as:
Most of them find this behavior among many female peers to be just as/more annoying.
They taken the time to listen and understand where I and other folks with my perspective are coming from rather than try shooting the messenger off the bat as a few posters are doing.
They wouldn't be friends if they persisted in communicating their confidences in that manner.
Since we’ve gone there, I’ll simply point out that on nearly every study that looks at differences in behavior at a more interesting level than those caused by simple gross anatomy or endocrinology (and endocrinology as a basis is iffy, too), behavioral differences between men and women have been found to be (a) smaller than those found within each gender, and/or (b) likely linked to socialization patterns.
Among social scientists who study sex and gender differences, this is by now a commonplace—that’s why finding an even very, very small actual sex or gender difference is a Very Big Deal Indeed. Popular culture, however, hasn’t gotten the message.
No cobrat. I find the male perspective interesting, not male assertions about female “chronic negative venting,” which I referred to as “critique” but really think is sexist. Please let’s get back to our married and divorced perspectives as they relate to this thread…
Hi all. First I want to say it is possible to feel all the caring and support from the CC community . I feel the love! Let me answer a few questions.
1 No plans to see a lawyer. I KNOW that if we split we would see a lawyer only to draw up the papers. My husband is the kindest , most ethical man I have ever met,
2 I have not worked most of my life. I was mostly a stay at home mom, which was what my husband and I wanted. I am a DINOSAUR! Very few moms I know wanted to stay home as long as I did.
3 I am not worried about finances,
4 I think my husband is a great man, and I am angry but not bitter. I really want to stay with him.
5 My husband paid all his stepsons prison costs. He has always treated him as a son and not a stepson.( My ex lives on a commune and has no income, but that could be another thread!)
@fauxmaven, I mean this with respect and caring, but it’s hard to accept your description of your husband as “the kindest, most ethical man I have ever met” given what you tell us he has said to you, and given that he’s willing to let you wait a year until HE decides what’s going on with your future together.
Please don’t neglect your own financial security because you think your husband would never hurt you financially in case of a separation or divorce. Before you started counseling, would you have expected him to hurt you emotionally in the way he has? PROTECT YOURSELF.
I told him yesterday that that was unacceptable. He has till May 1 to make his move. It took me a lot of soul searching to say this. I simply don’t want a year of uncertainty. He can decide between now and May 1.
Okay… I REALLY think you are naive about how people act when they are dumping their spouse of 30 years. If he were truly kind and ethical – we probably would not be having this conversation. Unless you are sure there is enough money for you to both live a separate and comfortable retirement, there is NO chance you won’t at least need a mediator. And if he is more knowledgable than you are about your finances, and has access to all the funds, you are running a huge risk that he will move or hide funds. It is astonishing what people can justify to themselves in this situation, and solely trusting him into watch out for your interests is a recipe for financial disaster. Also, you don’t just go to one attorney to draw up papers. You need someone looking over the legal agreement with YOUR interest in mind. The QDRO discussion above is a perfect example – he (and “his” attorney) could screw you and you may never even know it.
FM…once more. A friend had a husband who was the kindest most wonderful man too. They were in counseling…he claimed he wanted to work things out.
She went to the ATM one day to get money for gas for her car. The account was EMPTY. Not a nickel was in it. Nothing. Yep…she then checked every other account…and guess what? Her perfect wonderful husband had closed every single joint account they had. Every penny was inaccessible to her.
Oh…and her perfect husband was supposed to be making her car and mortgage payments also. If it hadn’t been for her parents financially coming to her rescue, her car would have been repossessed…and her home foreclosed upon. Turns out…he hadn’t been making payments for a few YEARS. Was squirreling the money away someplace…but not on those bills,
That is when she saw a lawyer. Her lawyer is trying to get her something…but now it’s. Challenge, because NONE of the accounts are in her name. So he has to deal,with the courts.
In the meantime, her very elderly parents are supporting her…and she also has a part time job. She hadn’t worked most of their marriage.
Don’t see a lawyer…if that is your decision. But I have to say…it’s not a smart decision.
@fauxmaven, with all due respect and true concern for you, I wish that you would do one thing - tell a lawyer your story and situation and let him/her explain if/why you need to protect yourself. You don’t have to decide to hire one at this moment, but making one appointment with a lawyer -may be the most critical thing you do for your future.
Talking to a lawyer doesn’t make you less loyal, make you sneaky, make you bitter. It makes you SMART.
@fauxmaven Is it safe to assume your husband is getting individual counseling away from you marital counseling together? I know you said you were going individually.
It can take time to find one you are comfortable with, too. I first met with a guy who was all gloom and doom about whether I could get what I wanted (primary physical custody of D2, control of the college savings accounts, and a decent split on retirement assets). I asked friends, got a referral for a woman who was super busy, but we clicked. I made my H wait four months to move forward while I waited for her to free up, and it was worth it. I achieved all those goals.
