Agnostic & bad public school-- please help w/private school choice

Parent Cafe
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<p>I think we’ve got lost in the details. The point is, the OP did well in high school then went off to college and found that her education hadn’t prepared her all that well, and she wants better for her son. She was weighing the choices between a touchy-feely school with too much emphasis on handicrafts and not enough on academics for her comfort, a school that taught creation science in lieu of the real stuff, a school that had too much of the religion she is trying to get away from for her tastes – and a Hebrew Day School where the parents all seem to highly value education… and come to think of it, maybe going to school all day with Jewish kids might be a good thing academically. OK, its a stereotype — but its got some truth to it – the school probably has high academic standards. </p>

<p>A good school can’t guarantee that a kid will be well prepared for college – and many kids who attend weak schools do well in spite of their less than stellar preparation – but the point is that the mom wants to ensure a better foundation for her kid, and that is one thing that was factored in to school choice.</p>

<p>Sounds like the kid is happy with that choice, and that’s really all that matters. If he enjoys school, he is going to be influenced positively by his classmates and teachers and want to do well. And if nothing else, it sounds like he’s on the way to making some good friends.</p>

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<p>I haven’t read the whole thread, but I will confirm this: A Jewish day school that is willing to accept a non-Jewish child is by definition progressive. It is highly unlikely that any Jewish day school will be teaching creationism as scientific theory. But it’s dead certain that no progressive Jewish day school – one that is pluralistic/non-denominational or that has roots in the Reform, Reconstructionist, Conservative, or Modern Orthodox movements – will be teaching creationism as scientific theory. Judaism does not reject evolution.</p>

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<p>It sounds like you’ve made a great choice for your son (and you). Congratulations and good luck. I hope he has a wonderful year.</p>

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<p>OP,
how are things going for your son at his new school? Has he settled in even with the disruption from the stream of Jewish holidays?</p>

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<p>Hi all! Well, my son is certainly loving the days off!</p>

<p>They had a half a day yesterday, and he told me that they talked about a yellow fruit that looks like a lemon in association with a holiday (that he can’t quite recall, lol). Apparently it was a citron. I know very little about Judaism and Jewish customs, and I expect that I will be learning a lot too over the next year. It seems almost like we are both in a cultural exchange. :slight_smile: </p>

<p>So far, I am very pleased with the school. In fact, I had a spur of the moment work obligation, and they kept my son in extended day even though I had given them notice that morning and had no time for paperwork.</p>

<p>The first day of school, we had to go back to the school because he packed his school supplies and none of his work. The standards are very high. He is expected to read, write out definitions, keep track of his own assignments, remember to bring his own stuff home. If he forgets his math homework, an email will be sent and he will not get to participate in a math lab. The teacher herself bought some kind of quilting material herself for a project that uses math. You don’t bring in your homework, no lab.</p>

<p>I kind of got scared myself those first few days, thinking “Can WE handle these standards?!” and was tempted to ship him off to the Waldorf to merrily carve wood. But then I thought “This is what I’m paying for, for him to learn to work to a high level so that he can be competitive in the maths and sciences”.</p>

<p>I talked to the math teacher a lot about what kind of curriculum he came from, and she said that this is going to be a hard 6 months for him as he adjusts, but that they are going to pay close attention and work with him. She said that when she was in the 3rd grade, she could solve any math problem, but was completely illiterate.</p>

<p>I also had a brief issue with his not writing out some definitions for science, and after talking with the science teacher about his visual-spatial tendencies and reluctance to write, she said that he can use the computer to type stuff, and she said that they are accustomed to dealing with such learners. </p>

<p>On that day, he had been given some kind of ram horn to take home for the evening (the children took turns) and while I talked to the science teacher, he weighed it, and she was telling him how to use he balance, and he added up the different things in his head and smiled. </p>

<p>It is definitely an adjustment for him to keep organized. However, I have noticed that both the science and math teachers stay there afterschool and help kids with work. In fact, the math teacher was there until 8 PM the one night getting her lesson planned out. They seem to pay attention to each student. </p>

<p>I met the Mom of one of the boys who spoke to my son the first week, and she invited me to have a playdate with her son. Everyone seems very nice. </p>

<p>My son appears to have no objections or concerns about the kippa, the lunch, the prayers, or learning about Hebrew/Judaic studies at this time. Nor has he reported on any problems, other than “The math teacher is mean” (I went to school with her – she’s strict, and to him, having standards is mean).</p>

<p>Having always attended public schools, and sent my children to public schools until now, it feels kind of weird to me to actually be paying to send my son off to a school when I pay taxes to live here.</p>

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<p>The citron is actually called an Etrog. Have him say that in school and he’ll get 3 bonus points!</p>

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<p>I’m so glad that everything is working out well so far!</p>

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<p>Glad to hear he is happy. IF, repeat, IF he seems to have reading problems you can request an evaluation from your public school district (ie at no cost to you)- it sounds like his teachers would notice and be helpful. </p>

<p>Now- relax and enjoy the experience- from the parenting angle. No looking back at possibilities. No school is perfect- keep this in mind when needed. Attitude is important- both on student’s and teachers’ part, sounds like a winner.</p>

<p>Aside- I remember the trouble my gifted son had with those mutliplication et al flash cards way back when. Currently taking grad level math courses and applying to math programs…</p>

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<p>Shofar, so good… the social acceptance and his personal comfort there sound positive! </p>

<p>A month of Jewish fall holidays ends this weekend. Perhaps now he can work hard to catch up with math. It’s coming into two very quiet and steady months, in terms of Jewish calendar. While some individual students might trick-or-treat on their own time, you’ll find that the school as an institution, and teachers, won’t spend a moment of classroom time on Hallowe’en.</p>

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<p>Oh, but wait until Purim!</p>

<p>I’m so glad things have started well.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the update. It sounds like you made a good decison.</p>

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<p>I am so glad that things are working out. Shofar so good?..ouch…good ouch…but good.</p>

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<p>LOL about the Shofar. I thought that was a typo! But that last post clued me in to look it up. That is apparently the ram horn my son came home with? LOL. He was really happy to have a turn to bring it home.</p>

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<p>Hi testaduro! I was thinking about this thread today because of a conversation I had with a friend (her Jewish son attends a Catholic school), so I was wondering how things are going for your son so far?</p>

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<p>Hi All! Boy have I got updates. Oh Vey, I almost don’t know where to begin! </p>

<p>Socially, my son is having a very good time of it. A little too good of a time. I can’t get him out of the school doors afterschool. I’m glad that he has made friends, he’s been to at least one boys’ birthday this month, and I see boys saying “Bye” to him everyday that I get him. I was not prepared for middle school girls. </p>

<p>A few weeks back, my son was showing his teacher how he can dance, and then made a muscle for her. Well… I heard a girl that I’ll call “T” say “Ohhhh!” Next thing I know, beginning that evening, and every day since, T has not stopped. And she gets her girlfriend V on the phone with him too. And then T and V also call him separately. And then I find out that there is another girl I’ll call S, who doesn’t call, but makes googly eyes at him during Math. The calls were incessant, one time it was 2x on Saturday, 3x on Sunday plus hangups. When he’s trying to do homework and the phone rings, he’s like “Is it for me” and he’s running to look at the caller id. </p>

<p>The girls are in the 7th grade and appear to have hit puberty. My son is in the 6th and has not hit puberty, not even close. When this first started, I said to him “I think that someone has a crush on you”, and he said in this little voice “I don’t even know what that is”. Well, I am wondering what he knows now… Two days ago, I went to his locker to figure out why he’s got “missing homework”, and I found that he had several pictures of himself tacked to his locker. In one of his dance photos, he was posed lounging like a little sheik, and he’s got these tacked to his locker. </p>

<p>He’s getting very moody. I’m hearing a lot of “I don’t care” and he’s ping ponging around about what he wants on an almost daily basis, like he has PMS or something. So even though he doesn’t look like puberty is on the horizon, it could be starting hormonally. </p>

<p>Academically, this has been a very tough transition. This school is on an accelerated program to begin with – basically 6th graders are learning 7th grade material. This is a top ranking school, and this has been especially hard with my son having come from the public school. </p>

<p>The science teacher said that there were entire gaps of knowledge that he just did not learn at all. He had no idea what the scientific method was, despite his public school saying that they taught science by labs. I think that the material is advanced. For example, he had to identify organelles of the plant and animal cells by name and appearance. </p>

<p>At first my son could not complete his quizzes on time, but this week he did complete it on time. After hearing this a few times, as well as that he didn’t seem to “focus”, I finally asked her if she thought he had a learning problem, and she said that she did not think that was it. She said that other than slowness on written tests and poor organization/turning in of written homework, he appears very bright in class. She said that she has questioned him orally about material, and finds that he knows answers, although sometimes needs clarification on what she was looking for. Like, “Oh, you meant that? Yeah, well that is… (gives the correct answer)”. She said that he is a good lab partner, a good in class participant, raising his hand often, and very well mannered.</p>

<p>I went to the English teacher and she said that my son did not know what an adverb or adjective was at all, which is 2nd grade material. I am so angry, I don’t know if it is my fault, the public schools, or what, but I had no idea. I mean, I showed up for parent conferences, got his report cards, but never had a clue?!
He had pages of sentences where he had to identify parts of speech, and he just sat there and sat there. After I got him started on the first few, he got it. With me sitting right there, asking him “Ok, what does this appear to be?”, it only took about 10 minutes to complete. It’s like he can do the work, but needs a person right there to keep his ass moving! </p>

<p>Math, ahhh math. The teacher just finished what was a review of 6th grade material, which of course, my son had never learned. It was a lot of algebra. He got a 75, and I was not happy, but the teacher said that for someone who had never learned it, he did surprisingly well, and would have done much better if he had a) shown his work more; b) memorized and written out the math definitions and c) not forgotten homework. (sigh). I really had to get on him about showing his work. One day he was standing there and saying “I’ve almost got it, hold on, hold on” as he was doing this problem in his head, and I ended up frustrated and annoyed with him. One day I physically sat there and made him right out a math process, and his resistance to this was palpable. But he does now seem to accept that he has to do this, even if he has to be reminded. They just now moved into the 7th grade math, and ironically, he managed to do the 7th grade math homework without my intervention. </p>

<p>Organization is at least half of the battle. We already knew that academically, it was going to be rigorous work. I’ve told him that if he needs help with understanding any of his work, I can help him. But I can’t help him if he doesn’t bring home or know his assignments. I cannot say how many times he left his stuff in his locker or did not write his assignment down. </p>

<p>These teachers are extremely communicative. My son has willingly stayed afterschool to finish up science, and I’ve never seen a more dedicated math teacher. The woman is there a half an hour before school for help, will help kids on lunch, and children may call her at home up until 9 PM for help with homework. The teacher and I have been frustrated because if he couldn’t do his homework and needed help, it’s there. Instead, he’d forget about it, or apparently rather socialize outside of class. </p>

<p>One day I picked him up and discovered that he had not completed homework. The next morning, he was up early, begging to go to school early for open gym before school. I took him to school all right, and sent him to his math room. I let him know that I understood that he was disappointed to get up and think he was going to do one thing, only to find out that he had to work. That’s exactly how I feel after missing him all day, only to get him and find out that I have an evening of aggravation ahead of me! </p>

<p>The teachers seem to feel that this is normal behavior, that this will be a rough academic year, but better for him to correct his organization and identify these deficits now rather than in high school. I agree, but what a struggle. The public school never reported anything to me. I had suspected that he was not getting an adequate education, but I have never been informed of any problem with organization, turning in homework, or difficulty with tests since the 4th grade. I assumed, based upon his report cards, that this was resolved. I knew that he had trouble with writing and some math homework, but he also scored very high on the NYS science and math tests when I tutored him the week of the tests. These teachers notify me DAILY if there is a problem. Geez, if he had stayed in public school, he would have just kept going and I guess I would have been none the wiser. This was the right thing to do, because I know in my heart and mind that he has a brilliant mind, and I want teachers who care about my son, but my God, this feels like such a battle. </p>

<p>To date, I have enjoyed the company of every administrator, teacher, and parent that I have encountered. All of these parents love their kids and want them to succeed. As much as it is hard to walk into the school and wonder if I’m going to get a report that my son didn’t do his homework, I feel very comfortable with these people and I feel that I share the same values. </p>

<p>He apparently is having no problem picking up Hebrew. It’s one of his better grades! Go figure!!! As for Judaic studies, same as with science – slow on completing written tests, but a great in class participant. </p>

<p>He is fine with wearing a kippa, and in fact puts it on when he’s on the way to school and sometimes forgets to take it off. School pictures were taken with a kippa, and my son had his on like everyone else. At this point, he seems to fit right in, and he seems to enjoy what he is learning. This was the right school. I am sure of it, and when my son doesn’t do his homework, the thought of him getting booted out is what worries me. </p>

<p>Religiously, if someone were to ask me “Should a Christian send their child to a Jewish school?” If someone were adamant about faith or lack thereof, it could be a problem. I’m not adamant. The “faith” of my husband ranges from “no faith” to “confused” on any given moment. I have difficulty in believing in a deity, but my husband does believe in God. Where we agree is on “values”, and from what I have read/seen, those values are espoused by the Jewish faith. I am open to my son identifying with this faith.</p>

<p>He seems to know the “food rules”, because I heard him joking with a girl about what they were bringing on “meat day”, and he was bantering with her that he was bringing “ribs, shrimp, and bacon”, and the girls mother was laughing saying “Ribs can be Kosher!” He is learning their holidays, traditions, and meanings behind them. He was happy to get a chance to take home the shofar. All of these things are being introduced to him by people who are caring towards him. So of course, I realize that despite rules of conversion/birth, through this education, he may come to see himself as “Jewish”.</p>

<p>I’m ok with this, but I think that our situation is unique. Other than to say that besides my mother, my husband and I have had to often be sad and alone. My education and career have never made up for the hole in me where a good family should have been. We have had to live like orphans with nothing but our children, due to our need to insulate the children from our dysfunctional and abusive family members. Nobody is going to adopt us at our ages. And we certainly want our own children. But I don’t want them to have our life. They should have more people to love them and support them through life. Everyday that I bring my son, I see the principal at the door, smiling, welcoming my son. He waves to me, and I drive off. Aside from education, I feel that I am having a hand in giving my son the values that I want him to have to grow to be a responsible and loving family man. There’s nothing that we can do about our family, but there are ways to give our children people to love them, and making them a part of a community is one of them.</p>

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<p>You just described my 10th grader, so if your son is only in 6th grade, I’d say he’s doing just fine. It sounds like he’s adjusting really well. Plus, it sounds like you can’t count on the school to let you know if there are any real problems.</p>

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<p>I’m very happy to read this update. It’s very clear that you did make the right choice. I know that the academics at a school like this aren’t so easy to adjust to (I remember having a great deal of trouble getting used to the level of work at the private school I started at in 7th grade), but it sounds like he’s definitely trying, and is on a good path. Continued good luck for the future.</p>

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<p>This thread is largely bygone and what I’m about to cover was not regularly congruent with the general discussion, but I cannot refrain from posting a rejoinder when the subject of creationism is broached, particularly since the following quote isn’t entirely precise:</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Actually, in the public school system, it is illegal to teach it at all, not merely at the expense of evolution. Opinion polls frequently ask whether individuals support the teaching of creationism or intelligent design in public schools, but it’s not truly a viable question in the first place. The courts, in accordance with teachers’ organizations (National Science Teachers Association, National Association of Biology Teachers, The Science Education Leadership Association), have resolved that creation “science” is purely a religious persuasion and nothing about its campaign as a veritable substitute is scientifically defensible even when dressed up in its pedagogical garb. Public schools must be religiously unaligned under the U.S. Constitution and courts have invariably held that it is unconstitutional to present creation “science” as legitimate scholarship. That is to say that an instructor cannot legally proffer any particular creationist account as more credible than others.</p>

<p>In particular, in a trial in which supporters of creationism testified in support of their view, a district court declared that the belief does not in any way begin to qualitatively match scientific criteria (McLean v. Arkansas Board of Education) and merely subordinates observed data to religious belief. Documentation asserted in defense of these claims is ordinarily confined to the specific publications of their proponents, which do not offer hypotheses liable to modification in the form of new data, experimental analysis, or demonstration of error. This is entirely antithetical to science, where any hypothesis or theory invariably remains subject to the accumulation of new knowledge. It forms descriptive generalizations and well-substantiated explanations from a body of empirical evidence rather than bending facts to a preconceived mold. The Supreme Court has maintained that it is illegal to require that creation “science” be taught when evolution is taught (Edwards v. Aguillard). Moreover, district courts have arbitrated that individual teachers cannot espouse creationism on their own (Webster v. New Lennox School District and Peloza v. San Juan Capistrano School District). Furthermore, a coalition of religious factions and other organizations has observed that genuinely scientific critiques, but not inherently religious appraisals (faith-based convictions unverifiable by scientific methodology), are permitted in the public educational domain. </p>

<p>Many, including those not adhering to Biblical literalism, valuing what ostensibly seems “fair,” will assert that the principle of equity stipulates the teaching of creationism alongside evolution. However, there are thousands of unique persuasions concerning special creation among the world’s people. It’s inappropriate posturing and a false virtue to aver for “fairness” when such a proposal merely promotes a particular theology of a particular religious scripture. A curricular marriage between evolutionary theory and a particular flavor of creationism in the biology classroom reflects an egregious misconception of science and its underlying methodology. A comparative study of religious traditions comprises a justifiable academic venture but not one befitting for inclusion into a scientific curriculum. </p>

<p>Incorporating the doctrines of any creationist account into the course of study compromises the objectives of a public education. A science class should exclusively cover science, not the religious views of a particular group of individuals. Some religious groups believe that the sun is closer to the Earth than the moon and that microorganisms do not cause disease. However, the science curriculum in the sphere of public education should not therefore be altered to reflect such opinions.</p>