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<p>Here is the problem with this school. Creationism is not science. It has no place in a science book.</p>
<p>I would not want my child to attend a school which made no distinction between religious belief and scientific theory.</p>
<p>It is an approach which will permeate every aspect of the school, it is not something that you could explain away after school hours.</p>
<p>[cross-posted with Sikorsky]</p>
<p>I’m with Consolation, post #6, 100% agreed. As a “lapsed Catholic” myself, I still think that of all the options, the Catholic school sounds like the most reasonable choice. I would NEVER agree with the teaching of “creationism” as a scientific curriculum. To my knowledge, the Catholic church does not see any conflict between religious beliefs and science, particularly evolution. Any school that teaches creationism is, IMO, completely nuts. Of course their religious beliefs will be shoved down your kid’s throat. The Catholic school, less so. Good luck with your decision.</p>
<p>I’m an atheist mom who sent her agnostic kid to a Catholic school. She got a great education, was treated with respect and left with the same beliefs she entered with. To this schools credit, her graduating class included the son of a Baptist preacher, the daughter of an Imam, and the twin sons of an Episcopalian priest. Just thought I would share D’s experience (though I’m sure every school is different). Your best bet would be to chat with parents of current students.</p>
<p>My parents were atheists. I was sent to a Quaker elementary school and an Episcopalian high school. I came out an agnostic. I sent my kids to Episcopalian high schools and they came out agnostic (1) and atheist (1).</p>
<p>I think it would be a HUGE problem to send a “sciency” kid to a school that does not teach objective science. Teaching creationism carries over beyond biology. How do you teach geology if the world is only 10,000 years old? It’s not just evolution that is effected.</p>
<p>When it was founded, Harvard believed that reading Latin, Greek, and Hebrew was essential for the understanding of the Judeo-Christian tradition. I think giving your child an opportunity to be thoroughly grounded in that tradition would be a huge win. If he decides to convert to Judaism later, well, that’s okay. I do see one problem with the Jewish school though; in middle school, all the other students will be preparing for their Bar/Bat Mitzvah–will your son feel left out?</p>
<p>Thank you all for this input! To clarify based on some of the questions:</p>
<p>That earlier question of what I want for my son is hard. His high scores in science/math and visual spatial gifts are offset by a dislike of reading (to date) which impacts his in school English. His oral vocabulary is far more advanced then his written. The public school is atrocious, there’s no formal gifted program, and I doubt my son would pass anyone else’s English section on a gifted exam due to this school. On the way “out”, one of my daughter’s former teachers said “They attract the worst of the worst due to low pay, and pick the best of the worst”. I am afraid that they will wreck his opportunities permanently. </p>
<p>On a certain level, I’m also not sure how to direct him. The arts matter because he’s highly talented at dancing, better than his female peers in his class. He could undoubtedly a professional someday if he wanted it. The director pushes for him to go to intensives, and I said he’s not ready. He’s 11, he’s not passionate. But I also don’t want him to quit because of his peers at school, depriving him of the chance to figure out if he wants to be passionate about this talent. He “likes” playing the violin and oboe, but he’s not passionate. He sings in chorus, but is not passionate. He is a competitive level team gymnast. Again, if he were passionate, he’d be great, but he’s not.</p>
<p>On the other hand, regarding puzzles, building toys, snap circuits, etc., yes he is passionate. If it can be constructed, he’s interested. For example, when he was little, he asked me to show him how to sew when he saw me doing it. I gave him a latchhook kit and said I’d show him when he could do that. He sat for 6 hours straight doing that latchhook. Then he put it away. Why? Because he made a mistake, and all that he had to do was rip out a few yarns, but he got mad and put it away. I’m not like that. I rise to a challenge, but if he thinks he’s failing, he throws in the towel.</p>
<p>One of his teachers said that if a teacher is kind to him, he’ll work very hard and do anything for the teacher, but if the teacher is harsh, he will absolutely refuse to do anything. He’ll cut off his nose to spite his face. He seems to be growing out of it, but still…</p>
<p>I am close to him. I want him with kids with parents like me-- involved, care about the arts, about his extracurriculars, etc. Where I live, I can’t sent him to a kids’ party without the parents drinking hard liquor and forcing me to stay…</p>
<p>The Jewish School: Son just turned 11 in July and is entering 6th. So he would not turn 13 until the year he is in 8th grade. I was not familiar with the other things that non-Jews cannot do, and did not ask. The principal said there would be daily prayers. I asked about his lack of Hebrew, he saw it as a non-issue. Said he had a child come in at 7th grade and be fluent by the end of the year (a little skeptical here). It is not “Orthodox”, but they welcome Orthodox, so they make the lunch’s dairy or pareve accordingly. Their brochure says:</p>
<p>"Daily prayers are taught in the lower grades and are said each morning by students at every grade level. Holiday prayers are also studied, making Kadimah students natural leaders at Shabbat, Passover, Hanukah, and many other occasions.</p>
<p>Holiday Celebrations: In addition to welcoming Shabbat, students and families join to celebrate Purim, Sukkot, Hanukah, Passover and other holidays during the year with parties, plays, assemblies and community events.</p>
<p>Kashrut: This is a community school made up of Jewish families and interfaith families, with varying traditions of religious observance. To accommodate the needs of all of our students, we maintain a Kosher (Dairy Only) standard for all food brought into the school and asks all students to avoid including meat products in lunches and snacks. In this way the entire school family can readily and easily participate in all activities and celebrations together. "</p>
<p>As for the Lutheran school, it is Missouri Synod. Their information says:</p>
<p>"Our sole purpose is to provide a Christian education for children. St. John School is a congregational response to the spiritual, physical, emotional and academic needs of children. The regular daily study of God’s Word reminds us that we are sinners and that through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ we are forgiven. We therefore can live a life of joy and peace in knowing we are saved. "</p>
<p>The science teacher is new. I saw Scott Foresman books, and was saying good things about them. That’s when he showed me what they are teaching from (wish I had noticed the cover!), and told me right away that they are teaching creationism instead of evolution in that chapter. </p>
<p>That being said, this school seems so otherwise perfect. They are one of the highest ranked schools on NYS tests. My son would be in a class of 10. They seemed so nice…</p>
<p>If there are only 10 kids in the whole grade, that gets old very fast. </p>
<p>Very few private schools around here actually take the NYS tests, but in my experience, parents have a lot more to do with the results than schools. (What happened in our area was that the first year they introduced high stakes testing in 4th grade all the private schools had their kids do them. When they scored the same or worse than the public schools they never took them again.)</p>
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<p>Being saved is THE most important aspect of life to this school, and they will see your son as not being saved, ie, destined for hell.</p>
<p>That just is really not a good thing.</p>
<p>Based on the additional information you have provided, I vote for the Waldorf school, with outside enrichment classes in math if necessary.</p>
<p>The Waldorf school should get him reading and writing, and since he has an aptitude for science, he may pursue it on his own in any case (which the Waldorf school would most likely encourage) and/or quickly catch up later if needed.</p>
<p>Would any of these schools let you and/or your son shadow another student for a day? That might give you a better feel as to how religion is presented on a daily basis and if it is something you can live with.</p>
<p>Also, not to get into a creationism vs evolution discussion, but there are millions of Christian parents who send their Christian kids to public high schools where creationism isn’t even mentioned as an alternate or opposing view - those discussions happen in the home.</p>
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<p>Totally agree with this. This is the one thing that really helped me sort out my options. Ask pointed questions. Parents like to talk about their kid’s schools -whether they are happy with it or not.</p>
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<p>Sorry but that would be a huge red flag for me. The schools in my area that put this type of statement in their brochures (and websites) are way more interested in ‘saving’ people than providing a top-notch education. Plus. I would be curious about why there is only 10 kids in a class (do you mean each class only has 10 students but there are a larger number in the grade?). Sometimes schools with extremely small class sizes are that way because they have trouble attracting students.</p>
<p>As a sixth grader, I doubt I would find it helpful to be reminded of my sinful nature on a daily basis. Especially if everybody around me thought they were “saved” and I wasn’t.</p>
<p>I very much doubt if the Jewish school would teach creationism in the science curriculum. All the religious schools will teach some pretty unscientific stuff in religious classes.</p>
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<p>Your son will understand very clearly at the school that he is simply not Jewish, and he can’t just decide that he is. Maybe it will make him undergo a lengthy and difficult conversion at some point in the future, but it is not likely unless a girl from the school is involved …</p>
<p>I wonder about that. I was reading that Jewishness passes through the mother. My mother’s father always said that his father was a German-Jew, although he tended to be full of bull. Neither he nor my maternal grandmother were religious. My mother deferred to my Catholic father. But if true, my mother would be 1/4 German-Jew by blood, and myself 1/8. So although miniscule (1/16) wouldn’t that be Jew passing through the mother?</p>
<p>“he tended to be full of bull”</p>
<p>LOL, I had a relative like that. Totally untrustworthy, but oh so entertaining. Miss him.</p>
<p>As someone else posted, I also think you need to figure out what is the end game for you. For my children, it is all about education and ability to get into a good college after high school, so the rigorous of school came first for us. We also preferred not to send out kids to a religious school. Luckily we had some very good independent schools, and we were able to pay. If cost was an issue with us, I would choose which ever school would give my kids the best education, and not worried as much as which religion (of couse except for the school that only taught creationism).</p>
<p>In choosing our kids´school, we looked at each school´s college placement record, and number of kids. We avoided any start up schools (no track record with any colleges), and any school that was too small. It is good to have small size classes, but not necessary as population. Small schools tend not to have as many course offering or ECs (no sports, newspaper, orchestra…) You need a critical mass to offer those activities. A school is not all about studies, it´s a community.</p>
<p>My kids´school is known for sports, but it is also very cool to be smart. A lot of parents put their “smart” boys at the school to make their high school years easier.</p>
<p>I would encourage you to look into some independent schools if they are available around where you live.</p>
<p>Testaduro, no, because any generation where the mother is not Jewish, the next generation is not. You are Jewish either a) by birth to a Jewish mother, or b) by formal conversion. There is no recognition (religiously) of fractions of ‘blood’ in your ancestry. And you can’t just decide to be Jewish, unlike many religions where it is up to you.</p>
<p>Re post #32 – I don’t think there’s a Jewish equivalent of the one-drop rule. Either your mother is/was Jewish, or she wasn’t. It sounds like your mom’s paternal grandfather may have been Jewish… but that wouldn’t make your mom Jewish. </p>
<p>Your son can convert to Judaism if he wants, but he is not Jewish by blood. </p>
<p>I think based on your post #25, your son has strong dyslexic tendencies, and could run into barriers when it comes to expectations for learning to read and write Hebrew. The pattern of visual-spatial strengths, dislike of reading, strengths in arts, and low tolerance for frustration are all typical dyslexic characteristics. (You can go here for a quick, online learning style profile: [Free</a> Online Dyslexia Assessment](<a href=“http://www.testdyslexia.com%5DFree”>http://www.testdyslexia.com) - it’s not really a diagnostic test, but if you answer all the questions about your son, in the end you will get a little bar chart of strengths and weaknesses)</p>
<p>The creationism thing at the Lutheran school is pretty much a non-starter. Waldorf may fit your son’s learning style to a T – or it may not – try to get specific info on who your son’s teacher would be and see if you can arrange for your son to attend and shadow in that classroom. In many Waldorf schools, the same teacher stays with the class from one year to the next – so a lot depends on the individual teacher. But I don’t know if that would be the norm at the middle school level – you would have to ask.</p>
<p>The Luthern school would be an absolute no. A math/science kid at a school that considers Creationism science? No way. Also, it’s very difficult being the “unsaved” kid among children who are being taught that saving others is their responsibility. The crap my kid had to put up with in public school in the bible belt? And, yes, they were otherwise very nice kids/ adults.</p>
<p>I would go with the Jewish school. It’s good to have a religious education so long as it’s not being provided by people who believe you’re going to burn in Hell.</p>
<p>I’m wondering about one other possibility (which is what I did with my kids through middle school): take the money you save by sending your son to public school and use it to supplement the heck out of his education. Summer programs. After school programs. Travel. Science kits. Tutors. Take him out of school from time to time to travel to a big city science museum for a day of exploring.</p>
<p>One thing that stands out to me is that your son is small and likes dance and gymnastics. Boys in those years can be very mean. Things I would look for is a tolerant student body. The kids at the Waldorf school would probably be the most tolerant. Like other posters I would cross off any school that teaches creationism. I might ask how many of the families at the Jewish school are interfaith.
Also where do you want him to go to HS? Will the decision of the middle school have an impact on that choice?</p>
<p>OMG to Calmom’s post. I took that assessment. Now I have something else to worry about. There were so many things, even the sensitivity (highly allergic child). He tested moderate on everything but the coordination/handwriting, which I have observed to be nice. He used to wear glasses, but did stop last year. My daughter and I are natural spellers, and my son was a poor speller, but it’s become very accurate. In fact, he’s raised his reading lexile 200 points due to a reading program where he reads the passage online and answers multiple choice on the computer. So his reading was at above average for 5th grade by the end of the year. </p>
<p>I got his state tests for English and Math. Great disparity. The children are given a 1-4, 3 being at grade level, 4 as superior. He got 21/25 math multiple choice right. My son almost made level 4 for math, but blew it due to the written section. I tutored him a few days before the test on the multiple choice and how to solve the problems, but I could not tutor him on how to give a written answer on how he solved it. When he was little, he often could give a math answer without being able to explain how he did it.</p>
<p>Actually, a couple of years ago, when he was putting together the complex models, he had out the instructions. I asked him how he was putting those things together and asked him how he’s reading those complicated instructions, but had a hard time with writing assignments at school. He told me that he didn’t read the directions, he just put the stuff together by looking at the diagrams. </p>
<p>He’s notices odd things that I’ve never heard of children noticing, like how many times my husband has circled the lot for a parking space, or why there are so many orange cones from the construction workers. I’ve always found it quirky and wonderful. Now I am wondering if this is a part of something bigger.</p>
<p>I’ve never believed that these standardized tests report my son’s actual capabilities. When I take the time myself to show him how to do math “old school”, rather than Everyday Math, he gets it very quickly. Just like dancing, they said that he can pick up the steps after they show it to him a couple of times. In his 3rd year of tap, he was dancing with kids with 6 years of tap. He has had no problems playing the oboe, and I’ve heard no complains regarding his reading music.</p>
<p>My husband started out in school as “bright enough” to skip a grade, but then was diagnosed as dyslexic in the 4th grade. He was put in resource rooms and given Candy Land to play with. The rest of his education was a tragedy, his mother did nothing. </p>
<p>So it is entirely possible that my son is dyslexic, but there’s no way that he will go my husband’s route. My influence/involvement is too strong. His sister and I are readers, and now my husband is too. If our son is dyslexic at this level that this test is saying, I don’t know how he’s gotten this far. I’m not sure if there is something to do or address now in addition to looking at schools…</p>