AI and bands for each school

<p>Does anyone know how to quickly figure the bands and AI for each school?</p>

<p>Meaning do I take the avg admit SAT and one standard dev up/down for each school? and therefor know the range for scores?</p>

<p>Can I safely assume that the lowest admits on the CDS are probably helmet sport/revenue sport admits?</p>

<p>fogfog - there is nothing "quick" about trying to figure this out! It has been a bunch of years since I've taken stats. i'm cutting and pasting part of a reference doc that i saved in the subject. I did an AI calc for my son a while back to see where he landed. That was exhausting ! ;-)</p>

<hr>

<p>"Bands at each school are defined by the statistical make-up of the school's current freshman class. In each school, therefore, the numbers associated with the bands differ. The universal rules that define the bands are as follows : </p>

<p>High band: This bands starts with the school's mean Academic Index, and ranges down to one standard deviation below the mean. ("Standard deviation" is defined as measure of the range of variation within a group. Typically, 68% of all data points fall within one standard deviation; 95% fall within two. In the case of the Ivy League Academic Index, one standard deviation reportedly varies from 12-16 points per
school.)</p>

<p>Medium band: Goes from one standard deviation to two standard deviations below the mean.</p>

<p>Low band: Goes from two standard deviations to two-and-a-half standard deviations below the mean.</p>

<p>Low-Low band: Ranges from two-and-a-half standard deviations down to the minimum A.I. of 171.</p>

<p>Using this system, an Ivy League school with a mean Academic Index of 210 and a standard deviation of 14 would have its bands defined as follows:</p>

<p>High: 197-210
Med: 183-196
Low: 176-182
Low-Low: 171-175</p>

<p>Ivy League schools rarely, if ever, publish their mean A.I.s. Under the rules of the system, no school can admit more than 30 football players per year. Moreover, the
schools must specifically show that prescribed numbers of recruited players fall into the bands as follows:</p>

<p>High band: 8 players
Med. band: 13 players
Low band: 7 players
Low-Low: 2 players</p>

<hr>

<p>Based upon the info above, football has to follow band guidelines too. Whether or not this applies to other "helmet" sports, I have no idea.</p>

<p>Fenwaysouth</p>

<p>WOW
Thank you so very much--that is what I was hoping to figure out..
Our kiddo is not in a helmet sport--</p>

<p>That is alot of work so I really appreciate the cut/paste to provide the help!</p>

<p>fogfog - Glad to help, as it is certainly a math intensive exercise. Our son is not a helmet/revenue sport either when he takes the field next year. However, calculating his AI and reviewing this doc gave me a much better idea of where I thought we were in the "coaches eyes". If I was to to give anyone advice about Ivy/LAC recruiting this is the first thing I would have them do. You have to know what "cards" you are holding or not holding. </p>

<p>In some sports, it can be subjective in terms of evaluating talent. Obviously, there are other factors in the recruiting process but this is an absolute measureable outcome. If you want the full doc, please send me a PM with email address.</p>

<p>fogfog - you have an email subject : Private Message from College Confidential.</p>

<p>fenwaysouth</p>

<p>the athletic recruitment bands have been extended to all IVY league sports ... football has it's own guidelines ... I believe all the other sports are lumped together ... so the school's athletic department decides how to allocate the slots across sports ... so I'd guess Cornell is more likely to use low-low band admits on a hockey or lacrosse player than some of the other schools for example. One misconception is that recruits can "average each other out" ... they can not ... each school has so many recruits in each band ... finding more high AI recruits does not allow a school to add more low AI recruits (it does allow the team top have more depth though).</p>

<p>On last comment I wrote to the IVY league to get more details on the Academic Index, the bands, and the number of slots ... and they wrote back with some very helpful info. It did not provide exact info about each sport and each school but it was pretty transparent about how the overall system works. (Ivy</a> League Sports)</p>

<p>3togo
Is there a specific article thats more helpful? Beyond the page --can you share more?</p>

<p>^ I deleted the email they sent me. At the time I was trying to answer a specific question in a thread on CC ... how much of a freshman class can athletic recruits take up? As I mentioned I deleted the emails I received. The info was not directly on the web-site I listed ... somewhere on there I found contacts and emailed the league directly ... and they responded back impressively quickly. The answer was not as specific as I wanted but was overall very helpful. I'd suggest contacting the league yourself with your specific questions.</p>

<p>That said I'm not sure what the value of the additional info is for a student being recruited ... ultimately for one individual it's all about how much the coach wants you and will they allocate a slot for a student with your stats ... the overall number of slots is moot; the exact stats for slots is moot; all that matters is if you get an offer ... and by definition the process is fuzzy; just as students are looking at many schools the schools are looking at many students ... in some ways the D1 LOI process is much cleaner than the IVY league and DIII processes.</p>

<p>3togo.....I totally 100% agree with this statement. I would submit that you can take out the "in some ways":</p>

<p>"in some ways the D1 LOI process is much cleaner than the IVY league and DIII processes"</p>

<p>IMHO the D1, D2 process is generally more geared toward "pure" athletics primarily. The Ivy and D3 process is generally geared toward more "pure" academics first. It becomes a risk/reward proposition depending on which side of the fence you sit, and what your ultimate goal is. For us, it was to leveage athletics to get into the best possible school, and have my son continue in his athletic pursuits. If you sit on both sides of the fence, then you have much more options (but you still have to play the recruiting game, and abide by the D1, D3, Ivy recruiting calendars). Ultimately in the Ivy process, you are playing a poker game. You have to know what cards your holding and what cards the "house" is holding. ;-)</p>

<p>One question about the CRS </p>

<p>with a straight GPA and approx scores our students AI is much higher--</p>

<p>The school doesn't rank so whats the deal with the CRS...it actually penalizes a student--meaning it makes certain assumptions, yes?
When I read that A is for Admission it addresses the issues with AI --
guess we should be gladd our student's school doesn't rank and pray that the coaches use the straight gpa and scores</p>

<p>For Ivies and NESCAC, if you meet can get an 1800 and a 3.2 you basically meet their minimum requirements. Then if you can play at the All-State level, you can get into any Ivy or NESCAC. For NESCAC if you are All Conference that is good enough, as long as you have the aforementioned grades/scores.</p>

<p>Fog, I can't help you with your question, but would reiterate what another poster said:</p>

<p>"That said I'm not sure what the value of the additional info is for a student being recruited ... ultimately for one individual it's all about how much the coach wants you and will they allocate a slot for a student with your stats ... the overall number of slots is moot; the exact stats for slots is moot; all that matters is if you get an offer .."</p>

<p>Our S is an athlete at an Ivy and dealt with coaches at a number of others. I don't think his AI was ever mentioned or really mattered. Not to say his academic credentials didn't matter - they did, a lot. However, in his sport, coaches are able to fill the rosters with good athletes in the high academic ranges, so I don't think most coaches are too interested in kids in the lower AI ranges. </p>

<p>Ultimately, I think it's somewhat simpler than we sometimes believe. The kid has to be able to make a real contribution to the team (either immediately or the coach can clearly foresee that possibility) and then he or she needs to be a reasonable academic fit. The better the athlete, the more flexible the issue of academic fit. However, I don't think the equation necessarily shifts as well in the other direction - e.g. being a tremendous student doesn't necessarily mean the coach will be interested in a more mediocre athlete - at least in terms of support with admissions. Good luck!</p>

<p>For Chun King:</p>

<p>I think this is a little overstated: "Then if you can play at the All-State level, you can get into any Ivy or NESCAC" - we've known of a number of great students who were also All-State athletes that the Ivy's were not interested in. It really depends on the sport, how competitive the Ivy is in that sport, and how competitive it is to achieve All-State honors in the athlete's home state.</p>

<p>Runners2
I think thats a great point...
as long as our student maintains the high gpa and continues to bring the sports times down--that with kiddo's build (and health/injury free) should continue to keep kiddo recruitable.</p>

<p>What I meant is that as long as you meet the minimum requirements, the coaches really care a lot less about how smart you are and a lot more about how you can help the team win. So it's more important to be a GREAT athlete than it is to be a GREAT student.</p>

<p>Chun King, that has not been my experience at all. What are you basing your conclusions on? Do you have personal experience with Ivy/NESCAC admissions? </p>

<p>3.2 seems terribly low for an admit at Ivy/NESCAC. It might be minimum standards but that in no way guarantees a tip or slot and certainly not an admit.</p>

<p>If you can play, the coach will take you. I am amazed at some of the schools my classmates were accepted into.</p>

<p>Chun King sounds like a troll. You have no knowledge and only want to give false hope to those who are really seeking answers.</p>

<p>Ran across this post from him/her on another thread today. Not a troll, just a bit bitter.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I wanted to go to an Ivy but didnt get in because I was competing against Asian kids. Meanwhile the dumb athletes got in. Go figure.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>At my son's bs, the average accepted gpa for two of the Ivies ranges from a low of 3.3 to a high of 3.7. These are averages based on hundreds of apps over the past 5 years. Two of the Ivies have averages of 3.3 and 3.4. Info is per Naviance. It depends on the school as a 3.3 at one school might not carry as much weight as a 3.3 at another school.</p>