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</p>
<p>Yes!!! I’m thinking “harder” at this point, but I may feel differently on April 1.</p>
<p>
Of course, my cynical and witty response would be, “Well I could have controlled it by not doing as well on grades/tests!” But I really do appreciate the responses and I suppose there might have still been other factors in the scenario that I was unaware of. Regardless, it’s not the worst thing to worry about!</p>
<p>If the fit is good, monstor344, the coach will make it work. If he knows you’re looking at several Ivies, and you’re a talented athlete, he’s not gonna want to play against you, and know he could have signed you :)</p>
<p>To MaineLonghorn- much as I’m glad not to be going through this again this year: </p>
<p>“It’s supposed to be hard. If it wasn’t hard, everyone would do it. It’s the hard that makes it great.”</p>
<p>A League of Their Own</p>
<p>riverrunner: I love everything you wrote in this post ^^^^^!</p>
<p>The athletic piece made the process harder for several reasons:
- it takes place over a longer period of time, requiring thought and action in sophomore year and even earlier for some kids.
- is much more time-consuming due the need to communicate regularly with coaches: initiating contact, filling out questionnaires, sending documents and then re-sending when they’re lost or need to be replaced with newer versions, updating coaches on academic and athletic progress, responding to e-mails, answering phone calls, going on unofficial and official visits, sleuthing to get the scoop on coaches and programs.
- the athlete needs to learn quickly how to make small talk with adult strangers at a moment’s notice, and consistently present him/herself well on the phone and in person week in and week out. Athlete must learn what to disclose and what to keep quiet, how to feel out the intentions of coaches, and eventually how to negotiate with them. The anonymity of just a paper or electronic application is emotionally safer.
- unlike regular admissions which is a one-sided declaration of like or love and then a waiting game for a response, recruitment involves a give and take courtship. But the element of student choice can produce stress and angst!</p>
<p>BUT, as riverrunner posted, it is really GREAT too!</p>
<p>Nice summary, GFG - captures our experience perfectly. So glad DS had the opportunity to go through the experience, but just as glad DD isn’t interested!</p>
<p>You did say it well, GFG. The student does have to step out of his/her comfort zone and grow up a little faster than would otherwise be expected. DS said he’s learned a lot about talking to adults and how important it is to listen carefully and respond thoughtfully. A good lesson to learn at 17!</p>
<p>GFG - You hit the nail on the head regarding what to expect in the long and drawn out world of the recruiting process. I would add one important aspect to this, and it is (I think) the toughest for the athlete and parents…understanding the athletic talent/potential that your son or daughter has. If you overestimate their talent that is not good. If you undersestimate their talent that is not good either. You have be objective on their strengths and weaknesses and listen to other professionals who have expertise in this area. Remember, they do this for a living in most cases.</p>
<p>Remember, this process GFG outlined can’t get started until there is a self realization there is talent, and desire. The college coaches want the talent. Your son or daughter has the talent. Understanding where your son or daughter athletically fits is huge. If talent evaluation is not realistic in the coaches eyes, then you are wasting your time, money, and efforts where it could be used at another school. </p>
<p>Most of the folks on this site are dealing with two variables; academics and athletics. Finding the balance between the two is “hugely” difficult. GFG provided a great list in what to expect. Some of us have lived it and others are going through it. As parents, you don’t easily forget this experience. But think how much this has helped you bond with your son and daughter, and opened their eyes to the adult world. It is a great learning experience.</p>
<p>fenwaysouth</p>
<p>I want to add another couple of points. These coaches are PROS at evaluating POTENTIAL in 16 and 17 year old kids. These are kids that are not physically mature and probably not athletically mature and most certainly not emotionally mature.</p>
<p>I’ve been told over and over and over – first they look for the GOOD kids because who wants to mess around with a kid that’s going to get thrown off the team for not following the rules. Then they look for admissible kids – because what good it is to waste their time recruiting a kid that can’t jump through the admissions hoop. And many times they look past what a kid has <em>done</em> in his high school sport, looking towards what they think this specific athlete may be able to achieve. (Although they are certainly happy if they can get the good kid who is an All American, with a 2400/4.0.)</p>
<p>They also look for kids that fit their program and can buy into their program. Thinking of a specific team who admittedly can’t get the best athletes because their academic bar is so high. How are they successful? Their mantra is work harder, work smarter. And this team has been extremely successful recruiting with this philosophy.</p>
<p>Great point about talent evaluation, fenwaysouth. This can be very tough to do, even in the timed and measured sports. Since the process starts so early, you have to factor in an assessment of the ongoing quality or lack thereof of the high school training, and your athlete’s position on the training continuum (near maximum potential or still a ways off) in order to predict future development in junior and senior year and on into college.</p>
<p>It seems a long time ago now, but early on in the process we were still feeling this out. We thought D would be D1 caliber by the end of junior year, but we were not sure she was strong enough in the D1 camp to warrant going that route over a D3/top academics combination (like Amherst, Williams, Middlebury) After one of our first meetings with a coach, we expressed some reservations about the athletic intensity of D1 and whether it would fit D. The guy sputtered in surprise and said “Even if she doesn’t like this school, she HAS to go D1. She’s a D1 athlete, not a D3 athlete!” That was helpful in clarifying where D stood.</p>
<p>Another part of this is the expertise and interest of the hs coach to see a student recruited–
Some coaches are experts in trainig high performance athletes–ad how to promote them, others not so much</p>
<p>and not all hs coaches really understand recruiting and in our school it varys trmendously by the sport!</p>
<p>In our case we have a coach that cannot provide our student with all things related to this sport and facilities/training etc etc
so we have a secondary private coach–that secondary coach has done a great deal to help our student improve athletically</p>
<p>Hoping when the time comes that both coaches can add helpful input when a college coach calls.</p>
<p>Monstor in your sport, rankings are subjective. No coach in your sport will use his slot (and Ivy baseball have at least a half dozen slots per school per year) on a lesser baseball player over a better baseball player who has better academics and take his chances with admissions. Thinking along those lines is folly and is really a way of rationalizing and de-personalizing a coachs decision to pursue one recruit over another recruit. </p>
<p>In baseball there are so many moving pieces in putting a competitive team on the field. A coach needs to match up his teams next years needs with this years available hs sr talent. For example, Brown brought in 6 freshman pitchers this year, but only 1 last year. Last year, they were loaded with experienced pitchers and needed position players. This year was the opposite. Princeton tends to recruit more evenly one LHP per year, a couple of corner infielders per year, etc. Players who are athletic enough to be moved from their primary position may be more valuable than one who is the HS stud catcher (who will be behind an all-Ivy catcher one year older). I had one Ivy HC tell me that he simply does not, as a matter of routine, recruit outfielders. Why? That is where shortstops who hit, but dont field, go. Other coaches feel differently. The point here is that recruiting is so very subjective in baseball trying to explain why a lower ranked recruit got the slot is almost impossible to explain except by the coach.</p>
<p>The long and the short of baseball (and I cannot speak to other sports) is the players (1) must be a playing fit (meaning projected to play a position which is needed and pass the character test [they fit in with team chemistry, etc.]), (2) must be good enough to have a legit shot of playing as a freshman (some Ivys only carry 27 man rosters which is really thin) and (3) must be good enough to pass through the athletic admit process (which has a lower bar then non-athletic admissions). No IVY/D1coach is going to roll the dice and hope that a great player who fits (1) and (2) will get through admissions purely on academics. (But, MIT does exactly that!) </p>
<p>Do not think that a lhp recruit with perfect grades and perfect scores and who throws 90mph (and who fits in (1) and (2) above), will swim in the general admissions pool while the lower achieving academic who throws 85mp will get the coachs slot in the hope that, in the end, the coach will wind up with both. (If you really believe that, then retake the SAT and skip a bunch of questions to lower your score. :))</p>
<p>Now, what the coach tells a recruit (were going with the lesser player because you can get in on your own), or what a recruit tells his friends, may be a way of easing the personal pain which comes with rejection.</p>
<p>Thank you Stemit - you said it better than I did. What you described was our experience with Ivy recruiting in another sport - e.g. that if a coach is offering a likely letter to the athlete he most wants on his team, not hoping that that athlete will get in anyway, without the letter. I think being the highest academic recruit among the athletic recruits can only help you - we heard that from several Ivy coaches.</p>
<p>Good to know
Encouraging our athlete to hit those high scores so that with a great gpa the stats, gpa and sat open doors
(praying) ;o)</p>
<p>Spot on, Stemit. Chris Lincoln’s, “Playing the Game” (highly recommended for an inside look at the Ivy recruiting process) quotes an Ivy coach as saying - ‘I don’t care if the kid has a 220 AI and is a double legacy URM, there is no way in hell I’m rolling the dice with admissions if it’s a kid I want.’</p>
<p>You people are clueless. </p>
<p>For NESCAC schools: College coaches want to win. Their best chance of winning comes from recruiting great athletes. </p>
<p>Each of these coaches have recruited thousands of kids and have brought each of these kid’s folders to admissions for a “pre-read”. The coaches, over time, have a very good idea what the cutoffs are for SAT’s and GPA. They won’t waste their time recruiting a kid who can’t get in (he needs a 3.0 GPA and an 1800 SAT). Once they identify a kid who they know can help them win AND can get in they recruit this kid heavily. If they are able to convince the kid to come to the school, they pressure the kid into applying Early Decision. Once the kid commits to apply Early Decision, there is no way in hell that admissions will ever turn the kid down. Think about how screwed the coach would be if admissions decides to turn the kid away. He would have wasted all that time recruiting the kid and would end up with nothing. So like I said before…the kid can wipe his ass with his application. The essays don’t mean squat.</p>
<p>For Ivy League, GPA does not matter nearly as much as SAT’s. Go ahead, try the AI formula yourself and change the grades and SAT scores. The largest component of the AI are test scores. So…once an Ivy coach knows a kids’ test scores, he knows if he can get him in or not. There are no “tips” or “support” with Ivy applicants. The football coaches are allotted 30 slots by admissions. The coaches can basically pick and choose the kids they want, as long as they meet the minimum AI in whatever Band they are getting recruited for. Since the coaches are competing with 7 other Ivy schools for the same kids, admissions never stands in their way.</p>
<p>You people give Admissions way too much credit. If a kid can play, he can go to a great school. Our guidance counselor even said that the only kids who are getting into Ivy league schools this year are the athletes. As far as I know, all of the ED acceptances to Ivies that I have seen from my school have gone to athletes. No non-athlete “students” have been accepted yet.</p>
<p>OUr schools best students (even athletes) were deferred at some ivies for EA/EC/SCEA…
One of our best students got deferred from MIT…</p>
<p>Apps are high, competition is fierce for all of them, whether the hook is a sport, an oboe, etc</p>
<p>Chun King, sometimes you make some good points, but it is really hard for us to read your posts when you start off by calling us clueless. Most of us have children currently competing for Ivy League schools, who are involved with the recruiting process for the incoming class. We are not clueless. Please accept that you represent one set of anecdotes: one particular high school, and friends and acquaintances who are applying to colleges. Your information is valuable, but please don’t try and tell us it represents the whole picture.</p>
<p>^^^^^^^ +1</p>
<p>Chun king,</p>
<p>I agree with riverrunner and mainelonghorn on this. You offer some good data points (I understand/agree with some points and understand/disagree with most) but the way you’re coming across is rude and crass. Everyone on this board has different perspecitives and experiences from a variety of schools and sports. My son’s recruiting experience, application and admission is totally contrary to what you describe for a lot of reasons that only my family understands. However, your description of this process may be similiar to someone elses experience on this board. I’m going to respect that perspective, learn from it, and pass that onto other folks who may be in a similiar situation that can use it. You also have a lot of people that are new to the process. Respect their questions and try to put yourself in their shoes. Nobody has all the answers, but through a collective board like this you can come darn close to figuring it out. I’ve always said that we had a lot of help in my son’s experiences through boards like this. We’re just trying to pass it forward. Please try to do the same.</p>
<p>fenwaysouth</p>