<p>ha, I say stuff like that too sometimes. Especially to my parents, because that’s who you usually go to for support when you feel really down. =) </p>
<p>I’m sure your son will be fine. He’s definitely overreacting. It’s unfortunate that he’s only telling you his pessimistic viewpoints. My parents worry too when I say stuff like that. I’d try encouraging him to have a more positive mindset, if you haven’t already, and try reassuring him that he’ll be okay. I think that’s what he really needs. =)</p>
<p>And I’m sorry you’re depressed. I know it must be hard as a caring and loving parent to see your son struggle. =( Just be the best support you can be to him, and I’m sure everything will turn out okay!</p>
<p>BicoastalMamma, I still take issue with you. Not with your son’s situation, but with how you are handling the situation here. You’ve posted on these forums telling other people to stay away because they need natural 800s on the SAT or to be a Math genius.</p>
<p>I did not get 800 on anything. And I am far, FAR from a math genius. Is the physics hard? Yes, of course it’s hard. But there’s AE. And wiling tutors. And other freshman who understand the material who are all to happy to help. And when I got a low mark on an exam, my professor immediately arranged a meeting with me to make sure I was keeping up and to explore my options if I was finding the class to difficult. And hey, that exam was just a bad situation, and I’ve done fine since. The point is, what you’re saying isn’t true. I got 800s on nothing, I am not the natural genius you describe that I need to be to survive here, but wonder of wonders, I am surviving and thriving and having fun here.</p>
<p>Your son seems like he’s in a bad situation. But that is no reason to believe every single person would be, and no reason to ward someone off from a school they might love because of you and your son’s problems. This place is difficult, and it is indeed advertised as difficult, but the atmosphere is full of help and support, and far from everyone is the natural genius you think they are. Encourage your son to seek the help that is extremely available, here like every other “meddling” person here has suggested, and perhaps consider the fact that telling people on this forum not go to Mudd unless they are math geniuses and got 800s on everything might not be best course of action for your situation. Especially because happy Mudders who are fit neither criteria are posting here too.</p>
<p>Given the context, I’m almost certain of the identity of BicoastalSon. He is my friend and I will attest that he is not a slacker. I am convinced that he’s doing all he can. We should admit that sometimes everything just isn’t enough. This sort of situation happens at many tough colleges, and I do think Mudd provides an incredible amount of support compared to, say, Cal Tech. But of course this can’t guarantee that every student will be able to succeed.</p>
<p>I am truly sorry, BCM, that your son, my friend, is suffering. I agree with you that another school might have been the better choice for him back then, but unlike you, I don’t think we could have predicted this unhappy outcome. While your son is not doing well at Mudd, some other students with weaker backgrounds have adjusted.</p>
<p>I keep telling you he has sought help and he gets shooed away or ignored or told some platitude. Maybe, they don’t like him. I just wrote that the prof today would not even talk to him about his low grade notice and wasted his time. Lots of time the AEs tell him one thing and the profs tells him they are wrong. I tried calling the school and they tell me to let him handle it.
I think it is too risky to go to Mudd if you are not a very strong candidate. Some weak ones will survive, but what you have to consider your chances and the fact that you can’t just change majors.</p>
<p>I can see that, and definitely agree with it to a degree. Perhaps we disagree on what makes a strong candidate, but it’s very true that it’s a risky choice if your background isn’t good (which it has been indicated it wasn’t in this case), especially considering there’s no way out of the engineering/math/science paths. You’re completely correct there.</p>
<p>I’m sorry for all the opposing faction, but I have to sympathize with Bicoastal on this one.</p>
<p>The general opinion of students don’t necessarily match with certain individuals. He might be having his own problems that a lot of those who enjoy Mudd despite hardships may not have.</p>
<p>Well, that was rather my point. This appears to be an individual case. The issue with BicoastalMamma is the generalized posts telling people not to apply to Mudd at all, like:
“Well, unfortunately, I am not taking anything back that I previously said about HMC. If you high school science curriculum is weak and you don’t naturally score 800 on SAT, don’t go to Mudd. It is not a school for hardworkers who are not naturally geniuses.”
“Even if you curtail every single activity other than homework and work study, you will not be able to pass if physics and math does not come automatically to you. Most of the kids are genius that find higher math as easy as 1+1 = 2. If you get in, it will a nightmare and you will flunk out. You can have a good life and fine career at a normal state university. If you are not a genius, don’t let Harvey Mudd ruin your life”</p>
<p>You’re totally right to sympathize, Maruhan. I just also agree this is more to do with an individual than the whole school and student body.</p>
<p>Well, there are 10 or more individual students who probably had 3.9 averages in high school who are now flunking at least one class and those are just the people I know of. There may be more. None of whom are taking drugs, getting drunk or not doing their work according to my son. I think the class size is less than 200. I understand the big risk is sophmore year is equally hard, so if you come back and are struggling to make up the failed class and survive sophmore year, you are really at risk of flunking out sophmore year and having 1 1/2 - 2 years of a bad transcript. How many freshman with a 3.9 average in high school who do their work and don’t take substances flunk one or more classes at Chico State every year? Who do you think gets a better job? A graduate of Chico State or someone who flunks out of Harvey Mudd and can’t get back in somewhere else? or takes 10 or more years to finally get into and graduate from Chico State? Figure in the lost income. That is a lot of very smart, very talented students who just lost a huge chunk of their life. </p>
<p>Nobody gets into Harvey Mudd who wasn’t very talented. Nobody should be flunking out. Lack of grade inflation should mean lots of Bs and Cs, not lots of Fs when you are dealing with such talented students. The courses should not be so difficult that very smart, hard-working students crash and burn. At the very least, they should be given leaves of absence and told what course to take to make up for deficits or given serious face time with a prof/tutor before it is too late. Just my opinion</p>
<p>You stand no chance in succeeding in something if you do not believe you can do it. Period. I struggled terribly in my early education and one day I decided I was going to be a rocket scientist. I worked extremely hard and started to believe in myself… it took about 10 years but I made it happen. People look at me and think I was handed it on a silver platter but that was not the case. I had to work almost every waking minute of my life from junior high through college.</p>
<p>Bicoastal, you need to start making your son believe that he can do this. Without that assurance, there is no chance of success.</p>
<p>My son and all the other failing, hardworking students believed they could do it. That is why they showed on the first day. I bet your school system taught algebra and geometry competently. and if they did not, I bet you knew there was problem before college.</p>
<p>“At the very least, they should be given leaves of absence and told what course to take to make up for deficits or given serious face time with a prof/tutor before it is too late. Just my opinion”</p>
<p>The odd thing is I know people the college has done just that for. I’m not sure why there’s a discrepancy in your son’s case.</p>
<p>They keep telling him he is not at the very bottom go away. They have to deal with the kids in worst shape, but he keeps sliding down and getting more behind and tired. That is what he tells me. I think he also helping other people a lot. He is either not getting attention or not being taken seriously. I don’t which one it is. He sounds so exhausted on the phone.</p>
<p>Why don’t you want the Dean involved, if he’s struggling that badly? Why won’t you give her a chance to help? It seemed from comments upthread that she responded within a few hours to an email from someone on this board. </p>
<p>Is there a cultural thing about shame going on here?</p>
<p>So if you are convinced that he’s not Mudd material, AND you’re convinced that the school won’t help him / provide support, why not just have him cut his losses and transfer? It’s like you see him in quicksand, but you’re going to sit and complain as opposed to throw him a lifeline. Maybe “get out of here and find a different college” is the lifeline. What’s so wrong about that?</p>
<p>BicostalMamma, did your son got admission at HMC through EOAA? If this is the case then do you want HMC profs to use EOAA for grading as well? Are you complaining that profs don’t take into consideration your son’s “background” when it comes to grading?</p>
<p>I think this is an issue many kids face. My S took a summer school class at our state u. He got an A+ for doing work he says he couldn’t earn a C with at his elite LAC.</p>
<p>My D had a good but not great GPA from her very elite school; it did hamper her a bit in law school admissions and folks with higher GPA’s from less grade deflated schools fared better.</p>
<p>But it’s a matter of degree. If the situation is so dire that C is the highest grade one can ever expect and takes all ones time to achieve it <em>does</em> seem like a transfer would be the best thing.</p>
<p>For the record, my S had an awesome HS transcript and I am sure he would not fare well at Mudd. He did not apply, knowing he could never cut the math/science atmosphere. </p>
<p>It’s okay to make a mistake and not understand one’s talents and gifts. My S had to change majors, and it was very traumatic, though obviously not as messy as transferring. </p>
<p>OP: Your son may be smarter than you think and he has just wandered into the wrong field. In any event, of course you want him to be happy and have self-esteem.</p>
<p>I keep posting that he goes to talk to the dean and she tells him to go away. </p>
<p>The point is not whether it is possible for a kid at the bottom of a school’s range to survive. There is always the possibility of survival for someone. Somehow, I don’t think Mudd is failing the kids at the top of their admission range. I just want to point out the danger of actually getting into your reach school, something that everyone at college confidential dreams about. </p>
<p>I also think the failing students at Mudd would be getting As and Bs or at least passing everywhere else in this country besides MIT, Caltech, Cooper Union and Olin. They were a talented, hard-working bunch who now have broken spirits and no future. I don’t think it is possible to transfer if you have Fs on your transcript. My son feels worthless and too afraid to do anything anyway. He sees himself as a complete failure surrounded by people who are able to do the work without killing themselves.</p>
<p>I’ve seen similar posts all over the Mudd and Caltech boards. I think you may be hurting your son. When he calls to complain how tired and behind he is, do you say a) “my poor baby, you never should have gone to that school”, b) “they saw ability in you and we both know you have it, so go force the dean to get help for you”, or c) “well, you’ve always liked humanities better, so maybe you should transfer to a more general school where you can do both humanities and science”? </p>
<p>I see B and C as very valuable and A as defeatist. My son has a visual impairment, so I’ve run into this same issue. I try not to say a) “you poor baby, you can’t see the board”, and instead say b) “if your telescope isn’t good enough, why don’t you ask the teacher if you can move your chair to several feet in front of the front row?” or c) “I guess you won’t be a brain surgeon - maybe you should be a programmer instead”.</p>
<p>I see on plenty of threads where the family of the high school senior is saying “oh no, Kid didn’t get into any schools, what do we do?” and there are replies listing the schools that are still accepting applications. If there are schools still accepting freshman applications, then there are schools still accepting transfer apps. I read elsewhere on the Mudd thread (years ago - I don’t know where) that schools are honest and recognize that they aren’t as rigorous as Mudd and will accept a student from Mudd (Caltech, MIT, etc.) even though the grades aren’t that good.</p>
<p>But to say that
</p>
<p>is defeatist. They may have broken spirits, but spirits can be mended. And to say that a bright, hard-working teenager has “no future” is ridiculous. </p>
<p>
First, you said he isn’t actually getting Fs, and second, have you actually called to find out? “Hi Transfer Admissions Officer, My son got in over his head at Harvey Mudd, a tippy-top engineering school, and really likes humanities better. His grades at Mudd aren’t good, but his SAT scores and HS GPA show that he’s smart and can do the work. What do you suggest?”</p>
<p>And you also say
This is a worthy goal, and maybe NEXT April, you should post this a few places (not just the Mudd forum, but maybe the parents forum where it will get more viewers). THIS April, your priority needs to be your son - either strengthening his spirit or getting him into a more appropriate school.</p>
<p>You “don’t think” or you “know for sure”? You seem just as paralyzed as your son. </p>
<p>And what do you mean by “no future”? Kids have flunked out of colleges before, gotten their act together and gone on to do something different. It’s not the end of the world. </p>
<p>Have you seen any posts by a poster named Hanna? She had quite an unusual path to get to a Seven Sisters and later Harvard Law School. You might want to click her home page (listed under her name) and read her story.</p>
<p>Since your son is convinced he has no future, YOU need to be the one to be encouraging and show him that there are plenty of paths for him. Instead, you seem to be just as down in the dumps as he is, and you don’t see a way out. Why isn’t there a way out? There is ALWAYS a way out. No decision is permanent.</p>
<p>Literally, BCM? He makes an appointment and she looks up and says, “Kid, go away”? I don’t believe it for an instant. The very same dean who responded within 2 hours to an email on a Friday night indicating her desire to help locate said kid?</p>