<p>I agree with this conduct random searches all through campus including dorms and frat houses and even classes and labs to search for liquor and if found in possession immediately expel and also give breathalyzer tests at random to kids walking on campus and if they fail expel them on the spot without even a chance of appeal and of course do this to BOTH men and women. This would take care of nearly half the cases reported in the CDC study when the survey respondents said that they were so drunk that they couldn’t say no or they don’t remember if they said no but they later regretted having drunken sex. This will be a step in the right direction as we root out the problem and may be we should ban parties as well and dating as people get drugged in these situations. Bystander intervention however will only appeal to gang rapes we need to root out the cases on one on one private rape or sexual assault which are the overwhelming majority and may include cases like a boy trying to kiss a girl and may be bystanders will help here but I don’t know.</p>
<p>Whoa, I know you are being tongue-in-cheek, SWDYDH, but you certainly made a good point!</p>
<p>If you are right that about 2 in 3000 men are rapists, then there are only about 4 of them at UVA at this moment, since there are about 6,750 men students there. </p>
<p>Bay I am a mere human and I do not know if I am right or wrong but the Bureau of Justice says that the rape and sexual assault incidence in USA in 2010 is 2 in 1000 (<a href=“http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/fvsv9410.pdf”>http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/fvsv9410.pdf</a>) so even if you assume that each rape and sexual assault is commited by a distinct individual there are about 12 male rapists and sexual assaulters in UVA at this moment though not all of them are rapists most are sexual assaulters like trying to breach a woman’s private space when they should not but that is beside the point. Even 12 out of 6750 is too much and our message should be One Less and whatever we need to do to achieve that including changing the fundamental premise of the US Justice system and adopting a guilty until proven innocent position and always believing rape survivors when it comes to campus rape that is fine with me. Draconian problems like having 12 potential rapists and sexual assaulters in a campus of 6750 male students call for draconian counter measures like taping all sexual activity and expelling students both male and female who are drunk without chance of appeal and I am sure anyone who understands that there is a rape culture will agree with me here.</p>
<p>Please remember that the BOJ statistics do not include a number of acts that we would all agree are sexual assaults. The questionnaire asks if the person has been forced to engage in unwanted sexual activity. But if the attacker tries to rape someone but fails, that would not count. Also, arguably, if the person was violated in such a way that she wasn’t forced to “engage”-- for example, she was raped while asleep, or the attacker grabbed and fondled her while she did not cooperate, those are clear and unambiguous assaults, but the woman answering the questionnaire might not think of them as being forced to engage in unwanted sexual activity.</p>
<p>For example, suppose there is a guy who has the habit of grabbing women’s private parts without their desire or consent. This guy is sexually assaulting these women, and I’d want him off my campus. But he would not count in the BOJ statistics. Nor would the dude who attempted to rape a woman, but failed when she managed to escape.</p>
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<p>I would take a look at this and some of the other articles before putting too much credence in articles from that source.</p>
<p>In the case described, it is pushing things to label it as a “false rape claim” IMHO. The defendant had sex with a freshman girl who clearly had little experience with alcohol and clearly was very drunk. In his favor is the fact that he evidently stopped when she asked him to. If I were on the jury I probably wouldn’t have felt that I could find him guilty of rape–based on the facts cited, but who knows how they are cherry-picked–but I also would not consider it to be a false claim.</p>
<p>^ helpful link. Thank you. This isn’t something I’d normally come across. </p>
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<p>Some things fall in that area that is not rape but are harassment - someone grabbing your boob, or pinching your behind, or rubbing up against you. I would agree that those sorts of activities can be handled by a code of conduct. I know such things have happened to me in college, often as a total surprise and I would never consider them as something that requires expulsion - retraining in decency maybe - a dressing down for sure - but expulsion no way. I probably wouldn’t even need the college to intervene unless it became a recurring annoyance. And even then I’d want some retraining - not suspension or expulsion. Obviously there are people here who would elevate that into an “assault” category. I wouldn’t. But I do think a code of conduct committee could figure out where the line gets crossed. Ironically the guy that grabbed my boob a thousand years ago is legal counsel for a college and has been for most of his career. I think about him now and then and how irate and offended I felt. I’m just sorry I didn’t kick him in his butt as he waltzed away. I’m sure he thought it was a bizarre form of compliment. There’s a world of difference between being groped and rape and most women can figure out the difference. And by the way, guys don’t always like to be rubbed on or groped without invitation either. </p>
<p>Cardinal Fang you are right as if a boy tries to kiss a girl and she says no and the boy stops that is still a clear case of rape and sexual assault as the boy tried that in the first place and the girl didn’t want it which is a clear cut case of rape and sexual assault that we must stop at all costs even if that means taking permission before any act and videotaping it as proof of consent. The Bureau of Justice will not include it because there are no laws against it but we all know that in a patriarchal society all laws are biased against women but the good news is that the CDC survey will and that why the CDC survey is right. No is No is so wrong and Yes is Yes is right because what was the boy thinking in the first place and also coercion is not right and is included as rape and sexual assault in the CDC survey so if the boy keeps whining for sex that counts as rape and sexual assault as well. We need to make the definition of rape and sexual assault as broad as possible to count all these cases otherwise we will miss the wave of rape culture that is ovettaking our campuses and our girls are not feeling safe from our boys who are clearly predators even though even if you believe all 19 percent of the survey cases for the CDC survey count as absolute grounds for kicking the boy out of school and it takes average 6 years to graduate it is about 3 percent such incidents every year which means 97 percent of boys do not even engage in such behavior as trying to kiss a girl without first asking for documented permission or whining for sex. I think the bottom line is that we need a massive public advocacy campaign to root out the problem that is campus rape as our nation’s highest priority and kick out all the boys from campus that our daughters do not like for this reason or that.</p>
<p>justice,gov “Sexual assault is any type of sexual contact or behavior that occurs without the explicit consent of the recipient. Falling under the definition of sexual assault are sexual activities as forced sexual intercourse, forcible sodomy, child molestation, incest, fondling, and attempted rape.” Doesn’t mention harassment.</p>
<p>Grabbing your boob is fondling, no? Or do you want to set some minimum time, more than x seconds? More than x times?I Sure hope we’re awake on this when we talk to our kids…</p>
<p>Looking forward I do not think your quote is accurate as that would mean the Bureau of Justive survey also includes attempted rape contrary to what Cardinal Fang said and in reality the incidence of rape and sexual assult in the USA is 2 per 1000 which anyone who knows about the rape culture in US college campuses knows that is too little as 2 out of 1000 would not qualify as a rape culture but we already started with the assumption that there is a rape culture and the numbers are saying something different year after year as the Bureau of Justice survey has been done for decades so the numbers must be wrong.</p>
<p>Sowhatdoyoudohuh are you for real? I can’t tell. I hope I am missing the humor in your posts. In my opinion they are over the top. I NEVER want to live in a country where you are guilty until proven innocent. </p>
<p>And I then further wonder, does begging fall under the umbrella of coercion? </p>
<p>Thank you for that link Consolation! (#1164) And a quick read of the “About us” section on their webpage will show the slant that website will be putting on anything they post</p>
<p><a href=“Return Of Kings Is Closed”>Return Of Kings Is Closed;
<p>Mamalumper if you wonder if I am real then you should talk to some of my friends who are lesbian separatist campus activists and also I am not saying all laws will assume guilty until proven innocent I am saying it will be only in the case of rape and also if you want to exclude cases where the accuser is a male that is fine with me too if that makes you happy and yes begging for sex by boys is sexual assault if the girl doesn’t like it but I know some girls who like boys to beg and that’s fine too as we do not judge anyway can we go back to the topic of what can be done to prevent campus rape?</p>
<p>I can’t even answer that. You are frightening.</p>
<p>Actually no I don’t think some idiot who thinks it’s cute to grab my boob and wink is committing a crime. A boor. insensitive. An ass, full of himself… but a criminal no, I can’t go that far and I can take care of myself. I only post this to point out that people have different ways of mentally classifying what happens to them as do people sitting on a judicial conduct board, in our police departments and sitting on our juries. And people who have such things happen to them are also going to have different reactions. And if a survey is not constructed well, or the terms are ambiguous or have different meaning to different people they will answer the survey in the manner that they interpret. </p>
<p>Mamalumper I think that is not fair as I am just telling you the criteria used by the one-time CDC study which used such frightening criteria to conclude that incidence of campus rape and sexual assault is 1 in 5 which got a lot of headlines and followup research grants and got quoted by the President even though the longstanding Bureau of Justice survey which matches legal rape and sexual assault standards was pointing out a much smaller 1 in 500 incidence but that was pushed away because we all know that there is a rape culture on campus and eveidently both Republican and Democrat Presidents and Congresses for the past 40 years have conspired to keep the numbers down in the Bureau of Justice survey as it is a massive patriarchal conspiracy so why blame me instead of suggesting ways we can stop the tsunami that is campus rape?</p>
<p>SoWhat…</p>
<p>does/did your college teach punctation?</p>
<p><a href=“What Is Rape Culture?”>http://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesthis/what-is-rape-culture</a></p>
<p><a href=“Shakesville: Rape Culture 101”>http://www.shakesville.com/2009/10/rape-culture-101.html</a></p>
<p><a href=“http://www.thenation.com/article/172643/ten-things-end-rape-culture”>http://www.thenation.com/article/172643/ten-things-end-rape-culture</a></p>
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<p>I am bit busy at the moment, but I will get back to answering @Much2Learn’s post. However, I did want put this on the table.</p>
<p>I never saw @marie1234’s post using that term when it was posted. I actually read it in another poster’s post citing that phrase.</p>
<p>The “truth is incidental” though just seems like an appropriate phrase to use when many posters keep talking about it does not matter if what Jackie says is factually true because she could have been raped. And others have posted in one form or another that the story, if false, is really secondary because rape happens. If these statements are not representative of an ideology that “truth is incidental,” then I do not know what those statements mean then because they clearly dismiss the truth, as necessary to the story. </p>
<p>What these people seem to miss from logic and stats classes is it does matter if Jackie is factually accurate and truthful because it is equally plausible that she was not raped. So truth does matter when putting out the allegation. Hint - the only thing she has going for her to help prove her accusation is truth. Have people missed that basic point? Seems so.</p>
<p>Therefore, responding to such statements above using truth, as the baseline, is not a straw man in my view. Why is it not a straw man? Because if Jackie’s story were corroborated, i.e., seemed even remotely truthful, with some certainty of events, people etc. and did not have so many holes then 90% of this thread would not exist the way it does. Is it lost on posters that in this entire exhaustive story NOTHING has been corroborated at all. Not even the house is known, date, street, the date guy, the other guys, what actually happened etc. is known.</p>
<p>So, the reason this thread is where it is is because it is looking more and more like advocates of “impact journalism” (borrowing another one of @marie1234’s terms) are selling a sham. If you ask me, the straw man here are advocates who are trying to tell others that the story does not matter. Hum, no, it is the story that started it all, so it is central to everything, meaning its truthfulness is paramount and darn sure matters.</p>
<p>My suggestion is Jackie file real charges with the police and name names and get this hide and seek of the facts, if they exist, over with. This public media approach is for idiots only. </p>
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<p>This is simply incorrect. The BOJ makes their questionnaire public. I already posted once the exact text of the survey question on sexual assault that is asked in [the BOJ survey.](<a href=“http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/ncvs1_2012.pdf”>http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/ncvs1_2012.pdf</a>) Here it is again. This time I put the relevant part in bold so you can see that it does not include attempted rape:</p>
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<p>Most people would not classify an attempted but unsuccessful rape as being forced or coerced to engage in sexual activity, because they did not engage in the sexual activity. Therefore, most people who had been subject to such assaults would not answer Yes to this particular question. Most people would not classify unwanted fondling and grabbing as being forced or coerced to engage in sexual activity, because they were not a participant in this activity but merely the sex toy of the harasser.</p>
<p>As an aside, unwanted fondling and groping is illegal. For example, from the Virgina code, here is part of the definition of sexual abuse:</p>
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<p>And here’s where it’s illegal:</p>
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