<p>I mean why worry about something I can’t control? I only worry about things I can control.</p>
<p>True…</p>
<p>That is a good way to live.</p>
<p>@SoWhatDoYouDoHuh The drone will zap the easiest target to locate: the glutes, the quads, hamstrings, front, back shoulder.</p>
<p>I thought you were going to make it more fun that that … :-(</p>
<p>Night guys.</p>
<p>Some of you people are crass. </p>
<p>^ No kidding. And astoundingly oopid.</p>
<p>I think in the drunken rape cases the guy is the active participant because he is raping an unwilling woman.</p>
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<p>If a person, male or female, is an active participant in initiating or participating in drunk sex <em>they consented</em>. I don’t believe in this hypothetical state where one is sober enough to be active, but not sober enough to decide to be active. Drunk people make bad decisions, but making a bad decision is not the same as making no decision. (Not counting the cases where the woman is forced into activity by threats or violence or something like that; that would still be rape.)</p>
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<p>Ok so let me get this straight.</p>
<p>First, the boy is raping because he is the active participant.
Also, the boy is the active participant because he is raping.</p>
<p>Nice tautology. You think that will hold up in court? You probably do.</p>
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<p>Then you don’t know anything about the physiology of intoxication. Read up. The courts understand it though and that’s why there is such a thing called legally incapacitated.</p>
<p>OK, that’s it, I am gone. For real.</p>
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<p>Fixed it for you.</p>
<p>I think hoof marks can indicate the presence of zebras, even though zebras may not be the first and most logical explanation.</p>
<p>I still believe that that “something” that happened to Jackie will turn out to have little or no relationship to the scenario she described to RS. I don’t think this is a hoax and I don’t think Jackie is deliberately lying to getrevenge or to avoid responsibility for a bad situation. She could well believe every word, every time she tells the (slightly different) story.</p>
<p>A couple of points that need clarification:
According to the WaPo, Jackie gave “Drew’s” real name to her friends. I believe the WaPo got found “Drew” through these friends. The WaPo interviewed this “Drew” who was a life guard, but was not a member of Phi Psi and did not know Jackie personally. This is not the Phi Psi member who has been named and is “lawyering up.” </p>
<p>Jackie left UVA early at the end of the first semester of her first year. At that point she hadn’t reported the incident to the university. It’s not clear what reason she gave them to allow her to take her finals over the winter break. Surely this isn’t a common occurrence.</p>
<p>Jackie and her mother met with the academic dean at the end of her SECOND semester, when she was failing three courses. That was when her mother told the dean that Jackie had had a “bad experience at a party” and when Jackie first told Dean Eramo some version of what that “bad experience” entailed. We don’t know what Jackie told Eramo or what she told her parents, then or now.</p>
<p>The Guardian article says she didn’t report the rape to the school,
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<p>But actually in the RS timeline, it was at the end of her second term that Jackie told Eramo (and Eramo told the administration) that she had been gang raped at the Phi Psi house. A major focus of the article was Eramo and UVA’s callous and inadequate response to Jackie’s horrific experience and to similar experiences suffered by other students, some at the same fraternity.</p>
<p>I believe that an assault like the one described in RS could have happened (though I’m skeptical because of the number of people who would have had to have known in advance of the planned attack). But I don’t believe that UVA’s administration could have heard the same harrowing account and just shrugged it off. A brutal premeditated attack involving 9 people is a serious felony meriting serious prison time. Being forced to have oral sex with 6 men is also serious sexual assault, but it’s a different story. That’s why it’s important to know what she actually told Eramo in June of 2013.</p>
<p>A personal note: I had a devastating experience with a family member which reminds me of this situation. She was a high achiever, accomplished, respected, credible person. She had a mental/emotional breakdown that was so private and internalized that even her closest friends and family didn’t recognize it for what it was at the time. Over a year’s time we listened and believed all of her chilling stories of terrible affronts she endured. Some were sexual, most were just personal and insulting. We urged her to take legal action, but she resisted. We wanted to believe her and the accounts all contained enough grains of truth that they were believable. It wasn’t until we began to see inconsistencies and odd, illogical details, that we understood that 99% of the experiences were delusions. At that point she sought treatment and was properly diagnosed as bi-polar and clinically depressed.</p>
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<p>People read sentences like that and think that it has been proven. In this case you should have said “Drew was a lifeguard, but was not a member of Phi Psi and claims not to have known Jackie personally”. The post piece says that “Drew” says he didn’t know her. </p>
<p>And, I am not doubting you, but do you have a link to the story about when she supposedly told UVA about her rape. I’ve tried to read every story about the case and I don’t remember seeing that one. I would like to know if they are guessing or how they verified the timeline. It would help me to reconcile some of the administration’s actions. </p>
<p>Thanks for the post @momrath. That was very helpful in describing the chain of events, as published in the media. </p>
<p>If you saw my post a few pages back, you would have seen my best friend from college had the same thing as your family member. And yes, part of the deal is we had to listen with his stories. </p>
<p>It was a bit odd when he would start talking about something he did that day that we knew was impossible because we were class with at the time he said it happened or the "moving parts’ were not even available where we were in school. We would just listen and pretend to take him seriously at those times. But, it was creepy though because he knew his condition and what its symptoms were. So every so often he would ask me, “So what story did I tell you last week?” He knew he told stories, but never knew when he told them or remembered them afterwards. Surreal. </p>
<p>In Jackie’s case, there is no good outcome really, which is sad. Either she was raped liked she said, or she is quite disturbed. No winner situation here except she gets help. </p>
<p>But, if she is not well the other not so good outcome is that a lot of people’s credibility will be shot because it would look rather stupid to make an unstable person who is not telling the truth an example of a legitimate rape problem, when no rape might not have even taken place. Will look like hoax played on the public for opportunism at that point, not by Jackie, but by the advocates. This is why I strongly disagree with advocates who do not insist that females immediately file a police report simply because it might not lead to charges or a conviction. If there were a report on file, Jackie would be in a much better place, publicly at least. </p>
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<p>Evidently you missed the thread where we discussed the 70s: post-pill, pre HIV/AIDS, Joy of Sex, Looking for Mr Goodbar, Fear of Flying, etc. We invented promiscuity and stranger sex. Oh… wait… that was our parents. Basically there is nothing new under the sun.</p>
<p>You asked how to stop rape. I am giving what I see as the best rape prevention suggestions I can come up with based on the experience of age. I think the way to prevent rape is to change campus culture. I think our generation should have done it so your generation doesn’t have to. Sorry about that.</p>
<p>Greenwitch, thanks for posting the video in post 1548. Friends should be helping each other.</p>
<p>ALH, with the affirmative yes throughout the act, you are back on the same boat. He said/she said will still happen. One of them can always claim he/she stopped giving an affirmative yes after the first few minutes. </p>
<p>You are assuming an adversarial relationship. I am not. </p>
<p>adding: I couldn’t edit my last post to add this. When young people show up here I assume they are looking for some kind of answers. I know sometimes they are just interested in rattling cages and that is probably a good thing in a way. Still, I am going to do my best to treat the questions as sincere because as a mom, one of my main jobs is answering questions.</p>
<p>You have to cover all possibilities. That is why he said/she said happens. Otherwise, we would have no issues right now. I posted this quote before from slate.
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<p>I think we have issues right now because of rape culture. That is what I think. I understand that is not what you think. </p>
<p>First thing this morning I suggested:</p>
<p>affirmative consent
enforcing alcohol prohibitions
encouraging bystander intervention</p>
<p>Do you want to talk about the enforcing of alcohol prohibitions or bystander intervention?</p>