<p>“But aside from all of that, the way she just <em>glows</em> when discussing any animal, be it our own or the ones up for adoption - if you were her parent, you’d know she can’t see herself in any other profession.”</p>
<p>As a high school student, her life experience is very limited. Many of us knew at that age that we’d be in a certain profession – a profession that we never entered because we later found other things that we liked even better.</p>
<p>Hmmm…all this hovering. </p>
<p>People are different and take different approaches. But I did well in school because I looked in the mirror and figured that was the person mattered. </p>
<p>My single mother was a kind person but intentionally just left me alone when it came to studies. </p>
<p>She would help if directly asked but made it clear early on the homework and school was my responsibility. She never bothered me about progress of homework, but made it clear the consequences of not studying were my problem to deal with. It worked. </p>
<p>I wonder if we let kids fail earlier on on their if they would react by being more independent. It takes courage because we don’t want to see them fail in any way. </p>
<p>Both my daughters are incredibly good students and I can’t remember saying a word to them past the third grade about homework, although the whole vibe of the household is that education is really important and we are awash in hundreds and hundreds of books. It is their responsibility, and it truly is their studies, not mine. I perhaps take this too far but standing on one’s own two feet is incredibly important to me. </p>
<p>Just food for thought.</p>
<p>Expressing concern about our kid’s choices (in a forum for adult parents) is not the same as hovering. Nor is making the occassional suggestion as to how to handle college admissions.</p>
<p>Yes, we have tons of books, and we value education, and the kids do all their homework and projects on their own, etc. I’m sure there are many CC’ers who have a similar hands-off approach.</p>
<p>But every family is different, and teens need different levels of support. I don’t think there is a one-size-fits-all approach to the college admissions process.</p>
<p>You’d think that no one here tries to provide some guidance to their kids.</p>
<p>Sheesh!</p>
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<p>Now I’m a Nazi, when what I said was “at least it was productive.”? I was happy she worked on <em>something</em> Saturday, before she went off to play with the cats all day Sunday (which is important, and productive, but still fun for her). And it may not be Harvard, but vet school is no piece of cake.</p>
<p>I would have benefited from more guidance in my misspent youth. If it’s anyone’s “do-over”, it’s me trying not to make the mistakes my mom (God love her!) made with me. Do we not all try to be better parents than the ones we had, unless the ones we had were perfect? </p>
<p>And no, I’m not changing my name and I’m not taking my football and going home.</p>
<p>Who knows the order of causation between a kid’s behavior and their parenting? I think we greatly over attribute kids’ behavior to parenting style. </p>
<p>Maybe when you are hands off your kid becomes more self-driven. Or just as likely your kid has always been self-motivated so you haven’t felt the need to involve yourself! Who knows? I know my parents were very laid back and I excelled in school…was it my parents not pushing me? I doubt it-- my brothers also were not guided or pushed but they barely made it through school. </p>
<p>I think kids are just different. Some are self-driven, and some need or want help with their focus. Some are Type A, some are Type B. Some are very achievement oriented or hyper competitive and others are laid back and enjoy themselves. </p>
<p>As an advisor to many PhD students, I see the gamut. And its a full range even among these students who are very intelligent and have done well in their undergraduate studies. Some work like they have a fire under their butt and others are easily distracted. Some can work completely independently and others need a lot more external guidance and goal setting and monitoring. Some are more self-driven and others need more pressure. What they all have in common is they <em>want</em> to succeed but not everyone has the same self-discipline. </p>
<p>And lets face it, few of us have self-discipline all the time. I’m supposed to go for a run in a few minutes and instead I’m coming up with every excuse in the book to sit here and surf some more. I <em>really</em> need and want to get to a certain speed for this upcoming 10k but its not working for me right now. I wish I had a parent to kick me in the butt…oh wait, that is why I hired a personal trainer last year!</p>
<p>i just hope you all let your kids be the ones who drive themselves
if they don’t want to, let’s say, do SAT prep or take an AP, let them not do it
they have to want it.</p>
<p>I mark the channel and hand them an oar…but they have to get in the boat and paddle.</p>
<p>Perhaps I’ve given the impression that my daughter doesn’t work hard.</p>
<p>She does, and I know she does. </p>
<p>And perhaps I’ve given the impression that I micromanage her.</p>
<p>It was her choice to stick with two AP classes her senior year, instead up bumping it up to three, which was my suggestion. Likewise, she could have taken AP English this year, but she was allowed to back off of that. No problem. She’s set some limits on herself so she can have a life, and that’s fine.</p>
<p>I don’t need to look at her homework. I know she stays on top of it for the most part. If she falls down once in a while… so be it. It’s not the end of the world when she gets B’s. She has a nice incentive if she brings home straight A’s, but she’s not being punished or anything for B’s. The only trouble she gets into is if she’s not honest about when she trips up. </p>
<p>And I trust her, in general. I don’t worry about “sex, drugs, and rock and roll” so to speak. She’s got good judgment. I know that, and her dad knows that.</p>
<p>So she can drive me a little crazy over a couple of things she’s procrastinating on. </p>
<p>She’s got a hell of a lot of potential, and I’m proud of what she’s done so far.</p>
<p>Sorry for my venting.</p>
<p>not at all.</p>
<p>the getting upset with her for studying for APs on Saturday instead of doing something you wanted her to do…well…a bit much.</p>
<p>I couldn’t get my S to study for ANY of his APs independent of inclass prep, much less on a Saturday.</p>
<p>I would have fainted had I seen him doing what your D did.</p>
<p>She sounds wonderful.</p>
<p>just let her relax and be a kid…not much time left for that.</p>
<p>Vet2be,
I’m with you. The AP exams from the Jr year have the potential to impress college adcoms, and save thousands of tuition dollars. My older D even says she wishes she had taken more AP courses in HS - and she took 7. High SAT scores can make a difference too - maybe not even the big scholarships but the “need based merit aid” - a minor grant instead of a loan.</p>
<p>Realistically, where else can you put in 10 - 15 hours of studying, and get a potential return of $1000s in tuition money ? I look at it like a job almost. And we’re not asking them to do this for all of high school. The “testing season” in our house runs from February - May of the junior year - it’s much more relaxed if they’re not frantic about re-testing in the senior year. And a TOTAL of 10 - 15 hours is not that much of an expectation anyway.</p>
<p>My d is studying for her tests now, b/c she doesn’t want to be an anxious senior trying to bring up her scores for the Dec/Jan test dates.</p>
<p>And also, my children are naturally high achievers, and I am happy with them. But every now and then, it is frustrating, when they are not seeing the big picture, and I do need to vent also.</p>
<p>And I don’t think you’re a Nazi for the Sat night studying. Fri & Sat night can’t be sacrosanct “fun” nights when every other minute of the weekend is packed.</p>
<p>“So she spent Saturday reviewing for her AP exams instead of working on what I suggested. At least it was productive.”</p>
<p>The mom is complaining about her D’s reviewing for her AP exams. I don’t get it.</p>
<p>“You’d think that no one here tries to provide some guidance to their kids.”</p>
<p>With all due respect, the point is that yes, we do try and provide guidance to our kids. What you are doing by actually weighing out her “fun” vs. “not fun” elements of her weekend to attain some sort of equilibrium to suit you goes far beyond “guidance”. My opinion. YMMV.</p>
<p>To OP:</p>
<p>Yes, parents here can be kind of hard on their fellow parents. It can be hard to hear pointed criticism from people who don’t know the least thing about you and couldn’t pick you out of a line-up.</p>
<p>If you take anything away from this discussion, I’d suggest this:</p>
<p>Understand that your anxiety (expressed as “venting”) is no secret to your D or your husband. It oozes out (a frown here, a disapproving look there), even when you try to keep quiet. Maybe it won’t come out as nagging. Or as directive (“study this, not that”). Or as criticism.</p>
<p>But it will come out in subtle ways, and D will know it. </p>
<p>Seriously, let go. All the way. Take no further interest in what D is or is not doing to further her dream. If she brings it up, make supportive noises and stop when she stops. It is not enough to try to withhold suggestions/guidance for two weeks or some other randomly-chosen length of time. Ya gotta go Cold Turkey here. :)</p>
<p>Only then will your D be empowered to pursue this dream if this continues to be her dream. Only then will your D’s dream cease to be a source of marital stress. Only then will you not feel personally invested in whether she does or does not pursue this or that course.</p>
<p>You said it yourself: D is a hard worker and is smart and is in the right environment. She can take it from here. You’ve done your job. Mission accomplished.</p>
<p>About the Vet thing - loving animals isn’t enough, and actually if she <em>glows</em> around them being a vet may not be the job for her. Vets don’t just deal with happy animals - they spend most of their time around sick, injured animals and are often called on to euthanize sick or injured animals. While treating a sick or injured animal they often have to cause them pain or discomfort in order to heal them (IV’s, shots, holding down a struggling animal, etc). If she is soft-hearted, this career may cause her to be more upset than feeling good about helping/curing animals. Just a thought - a good friend’s daughter just changed her major after a stint as a volunteer in a vet’s office opened her eyes.</p>
<p>There are multiple paths to reaching a dream career, some easier, some harder. I’m thinking here of two vets that I know well. One initially didn’t get in to vet school, and ended up spending a year at a vet school in Central America before applying (successfully) within the US yet again. Vet #2 went through three application cycles, talking to the admissions committee and vet school professors to find out what problems existed with his/her unsuccessful applications. The acceptance came the third time through. </p>
<p>Yes, it’s much easier if your D does the work now and gets into one of the early admit programs. It’s still possible for her to be a vet if she doesn’t. What I’d be more concerned with is the procrastination issue, because deadline issues become much more serious for college applications and financial aid. She’s already had some logical and significant consequences from not getting things done on time: the loss of the vet shadowing opportunity, the failed AP test. You might want to talk calmly and privately to your DH about these specific incidents. Then wait and see if your D gets that “Aha!” moment of comprehension when she’s cold-calling vets.</p>
<p>"She’s already had some logical and significant consequences from not getting things done on time: the loss of the vet shadowing opportunity, the failed AP test. "</p>
<p>To me the fact that the D’s behavior didn’t change after missing the vet shadowing opp tells me that being a vet probably is just a dream for her, not something that she’s invested enough in to do the hard work to accomplish. And that’s OK. She’s only in high school – a fine time for her to dream about the future without taking concrete action to solidify her career.</p>
<p>What I’ve seen with my kids, students and others is that when people become truly invested in their dreams, they take the actions to achieve them – and they do so without having others push them, and they’ll take actions to help themselves that go far beyond what we would have encouraged them to do.</p>
<p>Or maybe the vet was really cute and she’s kind of shy and it made her uncomfortable. Maybe the vet spent too much time on the phone and not with the animals.</p>
<p>She may not have been entirely happy with the situation for any number of reasons that she didn’t share with me. And a vet with whom she’s more comfortable would work out better. Who knows?</p>
<p>And I think some kids need a push. </p>
<p>But we’ve seen a lot of growth in her high school years - there has been a HUGE improvement since her freshman year. And I expect that to continue. So I’m not quite ready to throw her to the wolves and not provide any guidance/suggestions.</p>
<p>I can’t buy into the idea that I shouldn’t tell her when I think she’s making poor use of her time. It’s called parenting. It’s called honesty.</p>
<p>But for the record, I never said I was unhappy she was studying for her AP’s instead of writing letters and essays - She made productive use of her Saturday, which was really all I was asking for. But, I know she hates writing. So it’s only natural to assume that’s one of the things she’d procrastinate on, and be a little frustrated with. Like it or not, this stuff does need to get done.</p>
<p>Time will tell.</p>
<p>^^^if you were my mother, i would be rebelling soooooooo bad…i would aspire to live in a box just to mess with you. It’s not called parenting, its called micromanaging…and it sickens me!</p>
<p>Let your kid live and do as they please. Be happy they care as much as they seem to. you have a great kid, let them be. or you will pay the ultimate price</p>
<p>^^^</p>
<p>As you seem to be a teen yourself, I can excuse a certain degree of you thinking you know it all.</p>
<p>But seriously, you have no idea how good she really has it.</p>
<p>We don’t ask anything of her that isn’t commensurate with her ability and her perks and privileges.</p>
<p>We ask a lot, yes. Perfection, no. </p>
<p>But it’s not every kid who has as little in the way of household or financial responsibility, all for the sake of letting her concentrate on her education. She knows that is her one most important job, and we’ve done a hell of a lot to make it easy for her.</p>
<p>She’s made many decisions, major decisions, I haven’t agreed with, but she’s made them and will live with them. She’s not micromanaged by any stretch of the imagination. She is taught fundamental principles of effective time management - a lesson she will probably appreciate in time.</p>
<p>She’s got a good life, and she does know it.</p>
<p>Don’t project whatever issues you have with your parents onto my daughter. She has enough common sense to know that we’re not unreasonable and we’re only looking out for her. It might be a pain, but not unreasonable. Really, that may be hard for you to believe, but it’s true.</p>
<p>“Pay the ultimate price” Oooooh, teen <em>drama</em>. Having stared my own mortality in the eye, I know a little bit about the ultimate price…</p>
<p>Op- I am the original poster (long long ago) who wrote about loving the kid you actually have, not the one you wish you’d had. My kid was the one in HS missing deadlines for prestigious internships, losing the application for a research fellowship at a local hospital, forgetting the address where his job interview was to take place. Every year we heard the same song and dance, "Gee it’s too bad he doesn’t live up to his potential’. Every year we watched kids who weren’t as smart and weren’t as capable and weren’t as well-read and articulate get all the goodies… And we gritted our teeth and watched him sack out on the couch and watch another re-run of the Simpsons.</p>
<p>As I’ve counseled newbie parents here many times- it is so easy to parent the kid who is winning awards and giving interviews to the local newspaper and racking up those kudos and who every teacher loves to brag about. It is so much harder to parent the kid who loses the note from the teacher who needs you to call him/her to talk about “how can we motivate this kid? I’m out of ideas.”</p>
<p>Well guess what? He’s in his mid-20’s; he graduated from the college of his dreams; he became this demon of time management by the end of Freshman year; his boss described him as "a one in a million hire’. Not to brag, but in the adult world he seems to be blowing the cover off the ball. High School? Not so much.</p>
<p>Relax. </p>
<p>I differed from you as a parent in one major respect (I’m sure we both grit our teeth and bite our tongues until they bleed). We never gave our kids a pass on household chores. I worked long hours and was not about to become the live-in maid when I got home from work… so from an early age, the kids were expected to do age-appropriate tasks (and to do them well) not as punishment… but as the price of living in a family. You want clean underwear in the morning? Learn to push the button on the washing machine–it’s just like a video game except you get clean clothes at the end.</p>
<p>I think requiring your kids to master life skills is just as important… even more important… than those AP exams or internships. And it will so ease her transition to college if she’s the only one on the hall who can sew a hem, iron a shirt, bake a pan of brownies, or get a mustard stain out of a towel.</p>
<p>Being a Vet? Who knows. With any luck she will flourish wherever she lands. It’s not your job to faciliate her becoming a Vet. It’s your job to facilitate her becoming a grownup member of society… regardless of what direction she takes professionally.</p>