Am I Wrong for Wanting D's Relationship to Be Over?

Parent Cafe
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I am going to speak for those of us who aren’t ambitious. This might be very rare on CC.

I am not ambitious. I don’t care if my kids are ambitious or if their mates are ambitious. As long as my kids can take care of themselves, are healthy and they are enjoying life… I am happy.

My brother is one of the nicest people on the planet. He has very little ambition. His wife does have ambition. His wife comes home from a day at work to a kind, loving man. She can relax at home and be herself. If she wants to go to the Womens World Cup with friends for 3 weeks, she goes and her husband takes care of the kids. They are happy. The photos on facebook of my sister in laws trip are fantastic.

My wife is also there going to the games. My wife is having a great time. My wife is a kid again for 3 weeks. My wife is dressed up like Uncle Sam in one of the photos. I hope she loses that mustache before she comes home!

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Romani, there used to be a poster here on CC who had posted some of that information several years ago. I could be off by a few % points, because “monogamy” depends on how it is defined. :wink: For instance:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/21854271/

And you are absolutely correct that women are just as likely to have multiple partners as men. The D could be involved in some casual relationships while at college, too.

Now back to the topic of this thread.

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Only part of “Love Story” was based on Al Gore. Erich Segal, the author,

http://www.nytimes.com/1997/12/14/us/author-of-love-story-disputes-a-gore-story.html

In some ways, Gore’s life was close to the plot line. His parents detested Tipper when he first started dating her. He met her at the St. Alban’s prom his senior year; she was someone else’s date. He went off to Harvard and she then applied to and was accepted by a junior college in Boston. She wanted to be in Boston to be near Gore.

Her parents were divorced–which was more of a stigma then than now. Tipper lived with her mother and grandparents, who helped raise her. Their help was necessary in part because her mother struggled with Depression. (Tipper herself struggled with Depression after her son was hit by a car and seriously injured.)

The child of a divorced woman who struggled with mental illness and who wasn’t a particularly good student wasn’t the DIL a Senator and his wife dreamed of for their Harvard-educated son. But a lot of their opposition to Tipper was that they just didn’t think Al should be in such a serious relationship at such a young age.

The character or personality of Oliver was supposedly based on the actor Tommy Lee Jones, who was Gore’s roommate. But Jones was from working class roots, so the rich controlling father part of the story was based on Al Gore. Jennifer, of course, was not a bit like Tipper. Segal said she was based on a young woman he dated while he was a student at Harvard. The dying wife part of the story was based on a young couple he knew while at Yale.

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BB, you’re really going to link me a study where these are the participants?

In shocking news, drug abusers more likely to engage in risky behaviors.

C’mon now.

I’m now pushing back on this every time I see it until someone gives me data that shows that men are more likely than not to cheat. I’m sick of the trope and I refuse to sell our men short.

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@jonri, thanks for all the details about Love Story. They’re fascinating.

I reread that book about a year ago. What struck me was how traditional the gender roles were, especially when Jenny faced the choice of whether to go to Paris for graduate study (on a scholarship!) or to marry Oliver. No one questioned the idea that she had to choose one or the other. The idea that she could somehow do both was never discussed.

What a different world we live in today!

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I think everybody’s exaggerating the need for expanded horizons (especially in the boyfriend/girlfriend realm) during college. But I guess that’s just me.
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Call me a cynic, but I don't believe that a sexually active young man would abstain from casual sex for 9 months while his girl is away at school, no matter how rich or poor he is or what cultural and ethnic background he comes from.

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I agree that this could be an issue…on BOTH sides…not just the boy’s.

Of course it would annoy some affluent families if the GF was the poor one…The term “gold-digger” gets applied. Some families still view marriage as an opportunity to expand the family’s networking.

Sadly, there are people that do not want their kids “marrying out of the their class”…and that can go both ways. My mom’s poor rural farm family was suspicious of my “big city dad” who already had amassed some assets. It didn’t help matters that when they married my dad purchased a brand new lovely home for them and bought my mom a new car. My mom came into the marriage with 38 cents in her bank acct. lol (off topic but odd tidbit…when my dad bought the home, they closed escrow a few weeks before the wedding. They were required to sign a contract that they would not move in before the wedding. lol))

There can be some adjustments when romantic partners come from two VERY different income levels. Expectations can be different, spending habits can be different, the concept of saving for the future can be different.

<<'Meals, transportation, lending him money etc. and he isn’t pitching in! I don’t think so!!>>>

I agree. He quit his job under the guise of balancing school and job, but more likely he wanted more free time to either be with the GF while she’s home, or be able to skype, video chat after classes while she’s in Chicago.

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It’s entirely possible that this kid WAS able to get into a school “like that”, but that the financials didn’t work out. It’s not a matter of gumption.
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This is very unlikely. He’s a 0 EFC student. If he had the stats, he could have had all costs covered at a UC.


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For example, the BF is eating at this family's 3X a week. Is part of the attraction for this young man from a poor family that this relationship creates a situation in which he has a better meal than he could afford on his own/saves him $ on his food bill? Is there a TV with as many channels at his house...or does the couple hang out at her house so he can watch things he wants to watch? Is D paying for dates for them to do things he could not afford to do on his own and is he the one driving the choice of what they do with her $? Is D driving him to do things he wants to do so he has taxi service without paying for it? I'd be really worried about him borrowing money from her for the housing deposit. <<<<<

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While it wouldn’t bother me at all if a low income SO ate at my home nearly everyday, I can see why there would be concern that he’s there simply for the free food and extensive TV programming. The fact that he’s not helping with meal prep or clean up (or anything else around the house), does seem mooching…BUT, the ADULTS are supposed to be the “teachers” in this situation. Rake some leaves!! Weed that garden!! Empty the DW.

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<<<
Remember Love Story?

As I recall, that is a work of fiction.

Al Gore says it was about him.
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I don’t recall a scene with Ryan O’Neal inventing the internet. :wink:

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I just watched Love Story on Netflix a few days ago. It is still a horrible movie with horrible acting, but I remember so well how I cried and cried in the movie theater. It is still the only movie I’ve ever sat through twice; I think I was about 11 years old.

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Given the use of acronyms on CC, I had a very weird initial reaction to this perfectly reasonable sentence.

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Sorry romani, you misunderstood what I was trying to say; that was not the link in support of the % - the point of that link was to say that “monogamy” can be defined differently. The 15% or so is over the lifetime, iirc. I do not have the links, so will have to fish for the posts; the data came from a local researcher’s studies.

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“He’s a 0 EFC student. If he had the stats, he could have had all costs covered at a UC.”

I wasn’t talking about going to a college nearby. I was talking about schools the likes of University of Chicago, where the D goes, as “like that”. Most low-income kids cannot afford the travel back and forth, even if they are getting full need-based aid. As well, he may have actually HAD the stats, but chose to stay local and going PT for any number of reasons. The “val” at D’s HS this year is going to a community college then transferring. He absolutely had the stats to get in at “good” colleges, and he did, but his culture is such that his parents decided where he will go-and he is. His sister faced the same edict, and she followed it.

It’s not all about money. It’s rarely all about money. You can choose to see it that way, or as a lack of ambition or whatever else others are seeing this as, but the cultural norms count for a LOT. D has one friend who even now is only allowed to go places with one specific friend, unless mom is going too. A teacher at her school from a different culture makes her kids live at home until they marry, go to CC then transfer for a local U, and live at home the entire time. They are allowed to eat only what the mother cooks herself, and they are not allowed to do anything in “her” kitchen. This is a woman with a Master’s degree who isn’t a recent immigrant, so back to what I said about it taking a long time to change cultural edicts.

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Gee, I wish I had that kind of “power” over my kids.

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As parents, it is really hard watching our kids grow up. We want them to be happy, we want them to have lives as easy or easier then we had it. I have to admit, I read the OP and my first reaction was that it was both racist and classist, in assumptions about the BF. Reading it, it is almost a classic slam on 'the lazy where is is some ethnic/racial group, or it comes off as that.

However, I don’t think it was entirely those things, either, I think it was just expressed poorly. If we see our child serious about someone (or we think is serious), we start thinking about the future, and if you see a kid that doesn’t seem directed, seems to be coasting along (or at least appears that way), it raises red flags.

But is the kid lazy? Given that his economic status is not great, it could be he cannot afford to have a car. The kid may have gone to junior college, and is only now transferring to a state school, but that doesn’t sound like someone who is aimless, if your daughter was dating the kid who was living in his mother’s basement and playing video games, that would be a slacker, but the kid is trying to do better it sounds like. So he works and helps with his mother’s bills, that isn’t lazy, that is a kid who is taking on responsibility in the perfect world.

The other thing that is evident here is gender bias, too. If let’s say this was a son, and he was dating a girl, would it be a big deal if he always paid and always drove? There is an assumption that since the D is always paying or driving, that somehow that makes the boy a mooch or a slouch, when it could also be the kid simply doesn’t have money. More importantly, it sounds like there is the assumption that of course the man will end up supporting the daughter, that he will be the primary breadwinner, etc, and that may not be true any more, in fact it isn’t, in a lot of couples the wife may in fact be earning more. If the D doesn’t have a problem with that situation, then why should it bother anyone else?

I think to be honest that the concern is more based on old ideas of relationships, that the woman will work until she has kids and then will be SAHM, and so forth. Is the D doing well in school? Is she otherwise still the same kid you knew in high school? In the 2 years she dated him in high school, did her grades go down, did her ideas go away? It doesn’t sound like the kid was ‘bringing her down’ or she was losing her focus, so what is the big deal?

If it were me I would apologize to the daughter, and explain your concerns without bringing into the fact the kid is whatever background he is, tell her you love her and you just want to see her happy, and that you are concerned about the BF and what he wants for the future, so it comes off as caring, rather than hating the BF because he is of some other group and isn’t from a well off family.

And yes, I have been there, we went through that with our S, with a girl he was with since the start of school 2 years ago. We had real concerns with the girl and how she treated him, and what was the tip off we felt he was slipping with the dedication needed to do what he is doing as a music student, that she was sidetracking him and so forth, was too demanding of his time, too emotionally needy, controlling and so forth. It didn’t make it any easier, but it had to do with her behavior, not who she was or whatnot.

One other thing to think of, even though they have been together 3 years doesn’t mean it is going to last, either, this is a different generation that ours, back in the dark ages people together three years were almost considered married, these days kids don’t get that serious until they get much older, and by then they may be history. My take is that if your D is doing well in school, and is otherwise not harmed, that in this case thinking of them together permanently may be a bit premature and also may be early to tell about the boy. In 3 years (when your D graduates), the boy might have his degree and be working and show he is a solid citizen; in 3 years, your d may realize that the BF was a great friend, but not someone she wants to be with, or BF could feel the same way about her. Both will be in college in the fall, away from each other, and both could end up totally changing, so it may not be worth thinking about the what ifs now.

@ dstark

I absolutely loved your response to this post, and I loved your story about the world cup and your wife and the other woman going there and so forth, that is really cool! It really makes my day to read about marriages where the people really love and respect each other and knows the value of having fun and living a little bit, living a life where at least at the moment it seems like everything is the nose to the grindstone, that really rocks!

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One question is yet to be asked and answered: Who drove the BF and paid for his entertainment etc. when the GF was away? :wink:

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<<<
“He’s a 0 EFC student. If he had the stats, he could have had all costs covered at a UC.”

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I wasn’t talking about going to a college nearby. I was talking about schools the likes of University of Chicago, where the D goes, as “like that”. Most low-income kids cannot afford the travel back and forth, even if they are getting full need-based aid.


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My point was that if he had the stats, his choices were NOT limited to “CC or UChi”. lol The OP and the Grands would not be upset if the boy was going to UCLA, UCB, USC, Stanford, or many other Calif schools where his need would have been met.

IF I remember correctly, the OP didn’t go to a fancy undergrad. For some reason, I’m thinking he went UAz or ASU…but my memory may be shaky. So, if this kid had had the stats to go to UCLA or one of the above, his need would have been met, and the family wouldn’t be thinking that the DD is slumming.

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It’s also not uncommon in “regular” public schools for kids in low-income families to be discouraged from even GOING to college. D’s school is different-they even go on home visits to explain to parents how college finances and admissions work. But I know of similar kids at other schools who were told that they weren’t “college material” because they were from poor families.

I suspect OP would only be happy with a BF of similar SES, same race, culture, and at one his his approved colleges in an approved major, which apparently may or not be the same major as his D, however.

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Yes, but he would have had to know that the possibility existed. And unless he had a good guidance counselor, he might not have.

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OP’s daughter went out with the BF through out high school. I would think the daughter would have advised the BF about the college process if the BF was not informed. I am sure OP would have given some advice if the BF had the stats. I believe when the school said they met all needs, it meant everything, which included money for travel, spending money and books. They wouldn’t pay for students to go home 3-5 times a year, but once or twice is budgeted in the COA.

I don’t believe OP is as sseamom described or he would have spoken up earlier.

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I do not think OP would set such a high standard.

This standard is just too high. As a BF, I do not think DS would meet many of the requirements listed here: race, culture, college, major. Such a tall order!

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Mc2k, I didn’t know that UCLA would be free for kids OOS. It’s not clear this kid is from California.

Mcat, until there is such thing as asexual reproduction, I would say that is a tall order for anybody. In short, one might have to wait forever until the standard is met.