American dentist kills iconic African lion for sport

[sabaray]

ML, I’ve long wished to go to Africa to see wildlife - I’m afraid by the time I’m able to, there will be nothing left to see. Hunting these animals - lions, elephants, giraffes, rhinos and I’m sure many others - needs to stop.

[jym626]

http://money.cnn.com/2015/07/29/luxury/lion-hunt-africa/

Luxury Hunts, which operates in South Africa and Zimbabwe, charges $49,000 for a 10-day safari to hunt lions. There’s also other big game to be had. African Sky Hunting in Zimbabwe offers a 10-day elephant hunt for $35,145. The prices don’t include flights to Africa.

Looks like these are scheduled as 10 day adventures.

The environmental group called International Union for Conservation of Nature has said that tourist hunters kill around 105,000 animals per year.
Killing 600 lions out of a total population of around 25,000 is not sustainable, the group said.

[sabaray]

Just like smokers and obese people don’t care that others find their habits disgusting.

Smoking is a choice. Obesity is not always a choice.

[jym626]

And what these poachers did was NOT legal. Maybe the business is legal, but these guides are dishonest. And I hope their behavior damages the whole industry.

[Bay]

And as I think I already mentioned, the animals totally ignore people in vehicles. Even I could have killed several lions if I’d tried.

Not that it doesn’t happen, but shooting an animal from a moving vehicle is not considered an acceptable hunting practice. I believe it is illegal in CA. If you have never shot a rifle or bow and arrow, I would not put money on you killing a lion on foot, especially at night.

[jym626]

ML didn’t say a word about a moving vehicle. And why is what might be legal or illegal in CA even relevant?

[BunsenBurner]

“He obviously recognized this because he acknowledged that he usually refrained from discussing his “hobby” with his patients. He thought people wouldn’t notice in this instance. He was wrong.”

Dum-dum-dum-dumb! When you are afraid that discussions of your “hobby” would not fly well with your clients, you know there’s something unethical or immoral or fishy about the hobby…

[Bay]

I don’t think you can shoot an animal from a non-moving vehicle in CA. But I don’t have the patience to look it up. Just as I don’t have the patience to look up the laws of Zimbabwe or rules regarding hunting. It was just a example to counter the ignorance about hunting and hunting practices.

[jym626]

I dont think ML is the one who is ignorant about this. After all, she is sharing that she was JUST THERE. How about deferring to her knowledge and experience. This isnt about hunting regulations in California. Thats irrelevant. Some folks are taking the time to look up information to support their comments. It helps make their comments more useful.

[Bay]

I’m sure ML isn’t the only person who has been to So Africa on this thread. In fact I know she is not.

[jym626]

Have you?? Were you just there?? I defer to, and find useful and valuable her recent experience and knowledge. She knows of what she speaks. And many have made it easy to read up on some of the policies or procedures there. Read the links in the thread that have been posted by others who took the time to post them.

[LasMa]

Its a legal business.

I have a feeling that the laws surrounding the slaughter of wild animals will be changing soon.

[Bay]

Yes, I have been there within the past year. And since ML is the one who claimed she could shoot a lion from a vehicle in So. Africa, she is the one who ought to provide evidence that she can do that.

[busdriver11]

“Dum-dum-dum-dumb! When you are afraid that discussions of your “hobby” would not fly well with your clients, you know there’s something unethical or immoral or fishy about the hobby…”

Not at all. It is good business to avoid talking about controversial subjects. My dentist completely sticks to non controversial topics, and there are some things mentioned that I know could be controversial, he completely steers away from those topics. It’s not just me that he’s talking to, it’s the people in the cubicles beside me. Even though after all these years, he probably knows he could say anything to me and it would be fine, he’s smart enough not to.

A good businessman might decide not to bring up interests like religion or politics, but I wouldn’t consider them unethical or immoral. Well, that is, unless you’re a …

[jym626]

What does others having been to South Africa have to do with anything? Maybe some are from there, maybe some visited Johannesburg, maybe, maybe some did a safari. No one has mentioned going on a a big game hunting expedition. If anyone reading has done this, their firsthand experience would be interesting. These constant tangential irrelevancies , deflections and backstepping are not helpful. What did your trip to SA entail? Were you on safari? A hunting trip?

[BunsenBurner]

bus, religion or politics are not “hobbies” - they are affiliations.

[Bay]

This information about lion hunting in Africa was posted on page one of this thread:

FWS identified three main threats currently facing lions: habitat loss, loss of their prey base to the bushmeat trade, and human-lion conflict. All three threats are inexorably linked. The human population of sub-Saharan Africa is expected to double by the year 2050, which will result in more conversion of habitat to agriculture, more hunting of the wild ungulates the lions depend upon for prey, and more instances of hungry lions attacking livestock and then being killed in retaliation. According to the International Union for Conservation of Nature (IUCN), retaliatory or preemptive attacks against lions are the worst threats the species faces. The IUCN lists African lions as a whole as vulnerable to extinction.

Lions do face another major threat: sport hunting. The proposal to protect lions comes in response to a 2011 petition from five conservation groups, who revealed that hunting occurs in 16 of the 20 countries in which lions remain and that the number of lion trophies imported back into the U.S. by American hunters doubled between 1999 and 2008. The official FWS position, however, iterated today by Ashe, is that sports hunting does not contribute to lions being endangered, especially when revenues from these hunts support lion conservation efforts.

I guess no one read it or wants to believe that sport hunting is not a threat to the extinction of lions. It is the burgeoning human population of Africa that is the problem.

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/extinction-countdown/african-lions-face-extinction-by-2050-could-gain-endangered-species-act-protection/

[jym626]

reposting form an earlier post:

The environmental group called International Union for Conservation of Nature has said that tourist hunters kill around 105,000 animals per year.
Killing 600 lions out of a total population of around 25,000 is not sustainable, the group said.

And the video linked above says some are raised to be targets for hunts. Thats equally disgusting, IMO.

Sorry- can’t play anymore. Have to go help a friend. Will look forward to hearing about your adventures in South Africa this past year. oh and I guess the solution to this

I guess no one read it or wants to believe that sport hunting is not a threat to the extinction of lions. It is the burgeoning human population of Africa that is the problem.

Surely you arent proposing culling that population via hunting. I know you are not. Its just a tongue in cheek response to another digression… sorry.
Carry on

[sabaray]

To continue Bay’s post:

Lions do face another major threat: sport hunting. The proposal to protect lions comes in response to a 2011 petition from five conservation groups, who revealed that hunting occurs in 16 of the 20 countries in which lions remain and that the number of lion trophies imported back into the U.S. by American hunters doubled between 1999 and 2008. The official FWS position, however, iterated today by Ashe, is that sports hunting does not contribute to lions being endangered, especially when revenues from these hunts support lion conservation efforts. This is consistent with other hunting-as-conservation positions taken by FWS, including last year’s decision to allow a hunter to import a black rhino trophy into the U.S. for the first time in 33 years.

Still, Jeff Flocken, North American regional director at the International Fund for Animal Welfare—one of the groups backing the original petition—calls the FWS announcement “very significant.” Although Endangered Species Act protection would not block American hunters from traveling to Africa to hunt lions, the proposal does establish a new permitting process that would require any hunters importing lion trophies back to the U.S. to apply for and receive a permit first. These permits, Ashe said, would only be granted if the lion were taken from a scientifically proven hunting program that actually helps lion populations and if the number of lions taken by hunters is sustainable.

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/extinction-countdown/african-lions-face-extinction-by-2050-could-gain-endangered-species-act-protection/

[TatinG]

I saw on the news last night that poacher kill 100 elephants PER DAY! Sport hunters are bad, yes, but the numbers of African animals are really cratering due to poaching.

There is no market in the U. S. for ivory or any of the quack aphrodisiac potions made from rhino horn, etc. I really don’t know what we, as individuals, can do to stop the slaughter.