The UK press is reporting that the PR firm Palmer retained just walked away from him as well. Suppose they don’t want the association hurting them or their clients. This guy will likely have to legally change his name and start a new life somewhere.
I didn’t say that Palmer was insignificant, katliamom, but it is this constant focus on his character, rather than a discussion of why these hunts persist. People seem not to want to address that; rather they seem instead to want to revel in ripping this guy apart. Fine, but that doesn’t solve anything.
" Lets not go there. Lots of indication that the video was significantly edited. "
Which video are you referring to ? There have been a few released, each one worse than the one it follows .
Why can’t we " go there " ? It’s very unpleasant , but no matter how much editing was done , it shouldn’t be swept under the rug. I really hope the remaining videos will not be released because they are grisly and vile. This is NOT about political leanings , but humanity and I really don’t see the difference between the subject matter in the vids than what was practiced in Nazi Germany at the hands of Josef Mengele and his ilk
I’m sure people have lots to say about this, lje62. Why don’t you start a new thread instead of hijacking this one?
No one "hijacked " this thread. although that seems to be the common answer/ response when a comment doesn’t fall in line with the popular narrative jazzmom…are we not free to agree or disagree on any given subject ? This, as far as I have known in the 8 years I have participated on this forum a discussion board. Discussion involves differing views. If every time an opinion or comment pops up that doesn’t go along with the majority of the posted comments, is it necessary to silence the voices that differ from the popular opinion ? Please feel free to answer with a legitimate reason why my comments are not valid , or why you feel that they should be redirected to another thread.
You are in fact not being silenced at all…you are being encouraged to be as vocal as you like on the topic you wish to discuss…but in its own thread. This thread is about a particularly horrific example of trophy hunting and the internet backlash to it.
I think that would be a good new thread, as long as it doesn’t get political and shut down. That is a topic that definitely stands on its own.
Quite right, busdriver.
I actually started one on that other forum, but unfortunately we don’t get much participation any more.
[Cecil the lion’s killer may have trouble avoiding extradition, experts say](http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/cecil-the-lions-killer-may-have-trouble-avoiding-extradition-experts-say/2015/07/31/6100c7cc-37be-11e5-9739-170df8af8eb9_story.html)
I don’t understand why you want to defend this guy, Bay. At least that’s how I read the overall thrust of your comments. But perhaps I misunderstand you.
To me the question is neither Palmer’s “character” nor “why these hunts persist” (though I’m not sure exactly which hunts you mean by “these hunts,” since some of your comments seem to be aimed at defending hunting in general and/or big game hunting in particular). To me—and to law enforcement authorities both in the U.S. and Zimbabwe, and to the news media covering the story—the question is whether Palmer broke any laws in killing Cecil, and if so which laws, and can & should he be prosecuted in the United States, and can and should he be extradited to Zimbabwe to face criminal prosecution there. You can say Palmer and the possible criminality of his actions aren’t the issue, but I guarantee that will be the issue for both prosecutors and other responsible government officials in both the U.S. and Zimbabwe until the answers to those questions become clear and until the criminal justice process has reached whatever conclusions it will reach. And because that’s where the focus of government action in both countries will be, that’s also the story the news media will follow. So in a sense by saying Palmer and his possible criminal culpability aren’t the story, you appear to be simply trying to deflect attention from what is currently the big story, to some other, more amorphous story. Fine, you may think that other story is more important–although frankly, so far I haven’t heard you clearly say what that more important story is, since the only common thread I can detect in your many posts is that we shouldn’t be judgmental about Palmer, or that we should ignore him entirely in favor of focusing our attention on some unnamed something else. But again, perhaps I misread you.
Look, I don’t like hunting, especially when it’s hunting for “sport” rather than to put food on the table, and there is something especially repugnant about big game hunting just because these are such magnificent, rare, and in many cases imperiled beasts, and because they are being killed by wealthy, egotistical a***holes for what appears to be no better reason than ego gratification, which may or may not include compensation for sexual inadequacies as some others have suggested. But I don’t think we’re going to get to a legal ban on big game hunting, much less a legal ban on sport hunting in general, anytime soon, perhaps not in in my lifetime. That doesn’t mean I’m against shaming individuals or groups who engage in such behaviors to try to get them to change their ways or at least to deter others from joining them, but shaming isn’t going to bring big game hunting or sport hunting generally to a halt. I do think at a bare minimum we should all be able to agree that when such hunting does occur, it at least must be done in accordance with whatever laws and regulations are laid down by the recognized authorities in the jurisdiction where it takes place. And to a shameful degree, that is often not the case in big game hunting. So when a high visibility case like Palmer’s comes along where there appear to be clear violations of law, at least on the part of Palmer’s local guide and outfitter and quite possibly on the part of Palmer himself, we should expect and demand prosecution to the full extent of the law. Palmer’s “character” comes in only insofar as his past actions provide a clue as to his inclination to follow the rules and “color within the lines,” if you will. His past actions may not be admissible evidence in a criminal prosecution, but to a prosecutor, his past M.O. certainly provides valuable insight into his possible motives and course of action. Facts still need to be ferreted out and a case built, but understanding the “character” of the alleged perpetrator based on his past actions is often the key to building a theory around which the investigation may be carried out and the prosecution may proceed. So no, I don’t think we should deflect attention from Palmer at all. That doesn’t mean I think we should make death threats against him, but there’s a huge space between making death threats and ignoring him. I also think, by the way, the laws should be tightened up to provide better protection to imperiled species. That’s why I support listing the African lion as “threatened” under the U.S. Endangered Species Act, coupled with tight restrictions or possibly an outright ban on importation of lion “trophies,” which would do much to undercut the global demand for dead lions which at this point is heavily U.S.-centric, the UK having lost much of its taste for such things in recent decades.
I guess I misread the motivation behind most of the posts on this thread then. If Cecil had been relegated to legal status as a hunting target, then shot and killed by Palmer, are you saying that there would be no reaction by anyone on this thread? Likewise, if it was just a regular lion hunt that made it into the news for some reason (like “largest lion trophy ever taken,” or something like that), then no one on this thread would bat an eye? I thought this thread was really about peoples’ distaste for lion hunting, yet no one was talking about why it exists. If I’m wrong about that, then I stand corrected, but I don’t think I am. I have not defended Palmer other than to be disgusted by the death threats and other sickening comments directed at him, but I would feel that way about anyone who had not been given a fair chance to present his case. I did defend the justice system over the court of public opinion in any case, which I already stated. Did you miss that?
Walter Palmer posing w kill, with his shirt off, reminds me of Valdimir Putin.
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03393/walter-palmer-ceci_3393111b.jpg
Re: post 330: Game, set and match, bclintonk.
Sometimes trying to discuss a topic is like playing whack-a mole on cc, and its quite frustrating.
**No, it is not. ** Read the title of this thread. It is: “American dentist kills iconic African lion for sport”. So we are talking about the senseless killing of THIS beloved, well known and easily recognized creature of nature. We are not talking about general hunting laws in California, and while many posters’ general dislike of hunting for sport has been mentioned in conversation, its not the focus of THIS thread. It is unlikely that the general topic of hunting would have come up out of the blue as a thread topic on CC if this magnificent, gentle giant had not been senselessly wounded, left to suffer for a few days, and then slaughtered. The “if Cecil had been relegated to legal status as a hunting target” is completely irrelevant and ridiculous to propose, because HE would NEVER have been made a hunting target, so why throw that in and then try to argue a hypothetical that is, IMO, absurd.
People have brought up his character because it seems to establish a pattern of his behavior. His behavior IS more egregious than that of the average cc reader who may have run a traffic light or made an illegal U turn at some point in their life. So to try to defend his felonious actions with such implications that others here could be law breakers seems to serve nothing other than to purposely try to throw irrelevant diversions into the discussion. Its pointless, annoying and very frustrating. If that is one’s goal, then they have succeeded.
OK- rant over. Time for the morning up of coffee.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiyQvm9d4tM&app=desktop
I guess the question is whether non hunting tourism dollars will preserve African animal populations in a more significant manner then hunter tourism.
Yeah, this was like sneaking into SeaWorld to harpoon Shamu.
Now if we could just stop the pesky natives from killing to survive and the massive amount of poaching that occurs by natives due to the black market demand we would have this situation under control.
Another straw man. This is not about hunting for food to survive, Greatkid. Do you see any native killing Cecil?
You have missed the overriding theme. I wasn’t referring to the isolated incident of Cecil being killed, I was referring to the entirety of the circumstances that exist there.
No a Native didn’t release the arrow or pull the trigger but natives of that country did everything else that brought these circumstances to that point.
I’d say the situation in country is a lot more complex than to say the natives should just stop poaching and trophy hunting. Much easier said than done.