Does anybody slaughter cows for fun? That would be news to me.
We don’t ask that question of people who work in slaughterhouses. Presumably, many people like their jobs, just like in any other industry.
Well, if the current outrage continues, there’s a business that’s going to be hit really hard… Jimmy Johns. There is evidence all over the internet currently that Jimmy John Liautaud is a big game hunter, and there is substantial evidence to back it up.
Farm animals are slaughtered for food, not sport. Trophy hunters just want the bragging rights and the animals head to show off and when it involves endangered animals it is despicable. Imo, such hobbyists (refuse to call them “hunters”) deserve to be despised whether the host country permits it or not.
The obsessive sickness of having to “take” the largest, rarest animals is particularly reprehensible because it fuels senseless slaughter of endangered animals that is not sustainable. The Pittsburgh doctor, according to one article, had killed six elephants and Palmer was seeking to kill another elephant (not his first) and it had to be a very large one, a bragging rights size.
I don’t imagine that my disapproval will have any impact on how these egotists feel about their disgusting hobby, but if worldwide disapproval leads to no airlines or shipping company being willing to ship trophy heads and carcasses, maybe that will have an impact.
So far Delta, American and United have said they will cease such transports.
I’m not familiar with Jimmy Johns, but am I the only one who sees hypocrisy in people who eat roast beef and bacon sandwiches, potentially boycotting a business due to legal big game hunting?
What exactly is the rule you are all following? Is it that if you kill it, you must eat it? That doesn’t work for the US meat industry. Is it that if you kill it, someone must eat it? I’ll bet that happens with every kill in Africa. Whatever people don’t eat (which is a lot more variety than we do), is fed to the lions and vultures. We probably waste and throw out much more animal product than they do.
Re: post #414^^,
Delta’s and American Airlines’ decision to no longer transport “big five” animal trophies is laudable, but they are not alone in this. South African Airways was the first to adopt this policy back in April, followed by Lufthansa, Emirates, and British Airways, and just last week Air France, KLM, Iberia, Singapore Airlines, IAG Cargo, and Qantas announced they would join… So Delta and American just the latest in what is becoming a pretty long list of airlines. What’s especially significant about Delta is that they are the only U.S. carrier that directly serves Southern Africa, though of course other carriers can book you through on connecting or code-share flights operated by other airlines.
Isn’t it great when private enterprise responds to public demand?
Personally, I have only ordered their vegetarian sandwich there. I know several people who go there just for their vegetarian sandwich.
And what jazzymom said in post #423.
That is good to know, bclintonk. Going to send off a "thumbs up" email to Delta right now.
I doubt the lack of transporting animal parts will have too much impact on big game hunting in Africa. Do people think hunters like the PA doctor bring home all six elephant trophies? It is probably just he photos he wants to bring home.
You think Palmer paid $50,000 plus for a photo of a dead lion?
Well, he wanted to bring home Cecil’s head.
I wonder if there might be a market for catch-and-release of big game, like there apparently is for some game fish–let them hunt with a tranquilizer gun, and then take their pictures. Let them buy a fake trophy. That way the same animal could be “hunted” multiple times. It would certainly be better from a resources standard.
Or would that not create enough of a “connection” with the animal?
Yes, I think the hunt is the biggest part of it. The $50K doesn’t include the prep and shipping of the animal.
Ok, but you will buy a veggie sandwich from a man who promotes the slaughter of cows, pigs and chickens, but not a man who legally hunts other big game? How do you draw the line?
LOL, Bay, now you sound like my vegetarian daughter, but I don’t think you really mean it that way.
I take it this is meant as a “reductio ad absurdem” argument–if you oppose the slaughter of certain animals in the wild, then to be logically consistent you must also oppose the slaughter of domesticated animals for human consumption, but many people would think that’s absurd because they’re not prepared to give up meat, consequently they shouldn’t oppose the legal hunting of lions or other big game, either.
I don’t think that argument works for the simple reason Hunt points out in post #420:
Many people would draw a moral distinction between killing animals for the purpose of human consumption–something we and our ancestors have done from time immemorial, and something we depend on for a substantial part of our protein intake, though concededly it’s not an absolute necessity–and killing an animal for the pure thrill of the kill, or to bring home to display in one’s trophy room for bragging rights. For that reason, I would suspect most people who eat beef would nonetheless say it would be wrong to kill a cow just for the pure pleasure of killing it, as opposed to killing it to put meat on your own or someone else’s table. I don’t think that’s an unreasonable moral line to draw. Nor do you get around it by saying the remains of the lion are eaten by other lions, hyenas, and vultures. Feeding those other creatures isn’t the purpose of the killing of big game, it’s just the incidental by-product of a purely ego-driven activity; and in any event they’re not humans, they’re wild animals, and in general we don’t feel any obligation to feed wild animals because for the most part they’re perfectly capable of fending for themselves, and if we feed them regularly they become less wild and it changes the ecology of the entire system.
You might have a stronger argument that there’s no tenable moral distinction between sport hunting for Africa’s “big five” and sport hunting (as opposed to subsistence hunting) for deer, pheasants, ducks, or bear. After all, when Minnesota Governor Mark Dayton goes pheasant hunting, he’s almost certainly going more for the thrill of the kill than for the meat, even if he actually eats the meat. But that’s probably not going to work as a “reductio ad absurdem,” either. Many posters would quickly jump on that bandwagon and say, “You’re right, all sport hunting is morally reprehensible.” Others might try to draw distinctions based on the rarity or conservation status of the species.
I agree with you that is a moral distinction. How do you feel about others’ imposing (by shaming or boycotting or threatening) their morals on you? Are you okay with it?
I’m perfectly OK with expressing my views about the morality of all sorts of acts, and I can take it if somebody thinks my own acts are immoral. I also think it’s fine for private enterprise to decide that it doesn’t want to promote certain immoral acts, such as transporting trophies, or for a private individual to decide not to patronize a business that engages in immoral actions. If I choose not to spend my money at Hobby Lobby, or Wal-Mart, or Dr. Palmer’s dentistry practice, that’s my right.
It’s harder to decide what should be illegal. I don’t think something should be banned just because I don’t like it. It does seem to me that big game hunting (as well as poaching) needs to be better regulated, at least.
Labeling actions as immoral seems more than okay to me. Sometimes it’s important to speak up. I’m generally uncomfortable with the idea of labeling individuals as immoral on the internet.
There is a wavy line between immoral and culturally unacceptable. There are things that most people on the planet would agree are immoral, and others that might depend a lot on what culture you grow up in. And perceptions change. But the dentist lives in the same general culture I do, so I don’t find the distinction all that important in this case. If he were a Masai warrior who has to kill a lion as a transition to manhood, or something, I might feel somewhat different.
The hunt. Snort. They don’t really hunt. They bait and lie in wait, in jeeps.
This is a “lion hunt” worthy of the name:
http://finland.fi/public/default.aspx?contentid=239639&nodeid=44498&contentlan=2&culture=en-US