I understand the “what ifs”, but I also know in the end I accomplished little of truly lasting value before college. So in that sense I also know this has not at all come too late for you.
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At Oxford you need to specifically make a request for feedback. They then have a certain period of time in which to respond. From what I’ve seen people say about the feedback that they have received, it is usually a bit generic and not very helpful. “There were a number of unusually strong applicants this year” and the like. You may get a tidbit on your interview performance. The Mathematical Institute at Oxford has adopted the approach of informing applicants of their admissions scores automatically once offers are released. People can then at least benchmark their scores to the data published on the average scores of successful applicants. That didn’t used to be the case. My son never knew what his MAT score was.
Cambridge usually has a request too but this year there isn’t one. I just wanted to know about my interview performance but they’ve taken away the option.
Interesting comments from the Admissions Tutor at my Cambridge college in this year’s (2023) annual report that I just received. He remarked to to me 5 years ago that they didn’t want more American applicants (largely because of fears that they would decline offers to stay in the US) so it is notable that his comments don’t mention US applicants, just the loss of Commonwealth and EU applicants. But this does highlight how their expectations are for a near 100% yield amongst students who meet their offers:
There is one mark of our diversity which has decreased though, and that is how a
significant number of students from abroad who apply to us, and who are offered
a place here, decide instead to take an offer from a leading US university rather
than come to Cambridge – and this explains why our overall intake is slightly smaller
than our standard number. We have a smaller number of overseas students coming
to the College in 2023 than in any recent year (except 2020, which
for pandemic-related reasons, was distinctive). Since the late nineteenth century,
the College has drawn a significant proportion of its intake from what were then
British colonial territories, and it retained strong links with schools and alumni
networks in those countries after independence. From the 1970s, the College also
drew a large number of outstanding students from continental Europe. Many if
not most of those students retained strong links with the UK after graduating,
and became an important part of Britain’s international network.
There are no doubt many reasons why, despite the world leading undergraduate
education the College has to offer, some of our most academically impressive offerholders chose an offer from a US university over ours – and it is also clear to us
that many of those reasons are not easily within our control. They are instead
responses to the wider perception of the UK across much of the world, and
based on estimations of whether an enduring association with this country that
comes from studying here will serve them well in their futures. The College can and
does support many of our overseas students financially, including those from
European Union countries, but sometimes more important is our ability to show
prospective students that life in Cambridge remains as fulfilling and interesting as
ever, whatever nationality or background one has.
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Just to add, this issue is particularly significant at Oxbridge because each individual college makes their offers separately and specifically by major, so they are usually making a handful of offers per subject and rarely more than 1-2 per subject to overseas students. That model just doesn’t deal well with a lower yield rate, compared to centralized admissions of several dozen students per course at other universities. I also think Cambridge is some way behind Oxford in allowing for these issues, since it must have been common to lose PPE admits for many years. I think Oxford’s tendency towards unconditional offers is also designed to lock down applicants they want before they’ve heard about the results from all their US applications. Nevertheless it shows how demonstrated interest such as connections to the U.K. can be an important consideration in college decision-making about whether to make you an offer
Looking ahead, I think any of these “elite” institutions in the US or UK, to stay elite, is going to need to figure out how to compete successfully for the top students anywhere in the world. Because their domestic pool alone is just not going to be enough for that purpose.
This is not a particularly profound insight, but it does appear different institutions are currently farther ahead or behind that curve. And it is not always the best strategy to get too far out ahead anyway. But although it sometimes seems immutable, the standing of institutions does change over time, in some cases a lot, and the ones that stay elite usually are constantly evolving to keep it that way.
I think elite schools in the US will likely be fine from a #'s standpoint even if they have to slum it and take only US kids. I’m sure they’d like a broad spectrum of students from all over the world as members of their communities, but with a population of 340 million in the US, it shouldn’t be a problem to fill seats in the grand scheme of things.
We’ll see, but the college-bound US population has stagnated, there is a much bigger population outside the US, many economies and educational systems are rapidly developing outside the US as well, some universities outside the US are already marketing more to US students to deal with some of their own problems . . . .
And actually, maybe we mostly won’t see, because pretty much every elite US institution I know about is consciously building up their non-US networks. So I am not sure many, if any, will try to actually test out what would happen if their normal competitors were pursuing the top potential students around the world, while they did not.
god i am so sorry. i was late diagnosed (summer before my junior year) and had to fight tooth and nail for it, as well as currently battling with my insurance for medication. i was the same–3.98 GPA but sleeping 3-4 hours a night because i knew if i missed one assignment i would never turn another in. feel free to PM me if you’d like support, and i’m sorry about cambridge 
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Interesting that they consider yield from US students. My daughter got an offer for Maths at Cambridge and it’s a grueling process. She has to take two STEP tests in June and won’t find out until mid August. She was encouraged by her college counselor to apply to Oxbridge because they are more merit based. The college process here is so capricious and unless you have a hook the chances of getting in are miniscule. If she does get into a top Ivy here we will encourage her to stay in the US and go to Cambridge for her masters.
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Good luck with STEP, it’s a very rigorous exam, but a good introduction to how math is taught and exams conducted at Cambridge. I did math (undergrad and PhD), so let me know if you have questions. As an American it’s surprising to pick Cambridge since Oxford doesn’t require STEP. But Cambridge mathematicians do believe they are superior because of the more challenging entrance requirements.
She was going to apply to Oxford for those very reasons. When we visited the UK we were told that Cambridge was the only place to go for math. We went to visit Cambridge on our last day in England and she switched to Cambridge. She likes the challenge.
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I agree, don’t tell @HazeGrey though.
Deciding between the US and UK isn’t obvious for someone with PhD ambitions, unless cost plays a role. Few serious UK mathematicians would consider going to the US for undergrad, unlike in many other subjects, because the same level of undergrad specialization and focus just isn’t feasible in the US.
S24 received an email from UCL indicating that he has been shortlisted to take the STAT test, which is scheduled to happen in April.
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I would second that Cambridge is the nes plus ultra for Math. Wishing your daughter the best. If she ends up attending maybe my DD can talk to her and make her feel welcome as a fellow American
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That is a kind offer. What does your daughter study at Cambridge? Which college is she in?
Hello! I haven’t been on here in a bit and I know this is quite random, but I got accepted to Northeastern for their program to do one year abroad at their London campus and then three years on their main campus in Boston. I am now not sure whether to accept my unconditional offer to St. Andrews or accept my offer to Northeastern. Does anyone have any suggestions?
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Also, St. Andrews has been my dream school for years, but after talking to an admissions officer, I discovered that it is very difficult to get into graduate school in the US for veterinary medicine if I attend undergraduate in the UK.
Northeastern would give you 1 year abroad+3 years in the US (or you could spend another year abroad ik Scotland). But it’s NOTHING like StAndrews in terms of focus, vibe, environment… What makes StA your dream school? Have you been able to visit?
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The NU-In program? Do your diligence there. Lots of opinions on it - both good & bad.
I’m assuming the difficulty for US DVM programs is not completing the pre-reqs as part of the St. Andrew’s degree program?
This should help with some color:
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