<p>I can’t believe you are even considering giving him money to repair his car. I don’t see it as an ethical dilemma at all. Doing anything to help put him behind the wheel of a car would be Wrong (with a capital double you). Where is the dilemma?</p>
<p>Remember this? [Santa</a> Monica Farmer’s Market Tragedy - Waxy.org](<a href=“http://waxy.org/2003/07/santa_monica_fa/]Santa”>Santa Monica Farmer's Market Tragedy - Waxy.org) [CNN.com</a> - Car plows through market, killing 9 - Jul. 17, 2003](<a href=“http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/West/07/16/farmers.market.crash/]CNN.com”>CNN.com - Car plows through market, killing 9 - Jul. 17, 2003) Ten died. TEN
Do not give this man a cent. He has a history of impaired judgement. Do not facilitate it.</p>
<p>If he has no money to repair his car, does he have money for driver’s insurance? Gas? </p>
<p>I’m adding my voice to the ‘just say NO’ chorus.</p>
<p>First of all…when my husband relayed the request I totally lost it. The only reason that I began to muse about this is that one person at the gathering thought that I was being controlling and cruel. It all went into a coffee and ice cream debate. Calla…I got your back. Really…if you see a very elderly man driving a v 8 with front damage…let him pass.</p>
<p>Jym: yes I remember.</p>
<p>And just so I really get this debate: I have night blindness and no depth perception. Thirty two years ago I decided that I didn’t feel comfortable driving at night. And since I don’t have depth perception I do not (and never did) drive freeways. No one told me to stop…I knew.</p>
<p>Bookreader…seriously? I am more than sure that at this point there is no insurance.</p>
<p>I happened to be in Pasadena with S#1 visiting Cal Tech when that farmers market incident occurred. It was all over the news and still sticks in my head. I also have patients who I have had to tell they should no longer drive. Do not want to read about them or their potential victims. Safety comes first. They disagree? I refer them for a formal driving evaluation.</p>
<p>How about simply not answering him? Just because he asked (and apparently he asked your DH not you) does not mean you have to answer. Time for a case of convenient amnesia…</p>
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Easy solution, the one person can assume insurance liability for his or her relative.</p>
<p>Yep…I am screening my calls.</p>
<p>Whoever said you were being mean or controlling is an a$$. Doctors orders-- NO DRIVING.</p>
<p>No brainer. No money. It’s got to be tough to give up driving, but to say that he knows he could hit children and doesn’t care; that’s beyond the pale. He’s being selfish and pulling the guilt chain.</p>
<p>I don’t see the dilemma. This is a fill in the blank type argument. If you don’t do _<strong><em>, I will _</em></strong>_____. This is pure manipulation, and if he acts out any more, take him to the hospital for a couple of days of observation for his mental health.</p>
<p>He probably has no insurance on the car, and who knows if his license and registration are valid. My poor old mother did some really boneheaded things before she died. She stopped paying all her bills. She had the money, but she just checked out on that stuff. I think all of her license, insurance and registration were no longer valid. A couple of years before all of that she had been in an accident that she claimed was not her fault, although the police did not agree. Fortunately, no one was seriously hurt. </p>
<p>I also had an uncle who ended up with nothing in his old age and had no use for anyone. He had wanted my mother to take him in, but after two weeks she couldn’t take him anymore. You have done enough for your uncle. Mine found a home that he could afford on his social security and veteran’s benefits, and that was where he stayed for years until he died. He was such a piece of work that when my Dad died, years before, my mother did not even know where my uncle was, so of course he was unavailable to her when she really needed support.</p>
<p>I would repeat. Stay out of it. He has managed on his own, for better or worse, for a long time, and has burned bridges along the way, probably in part because of unreasonable behaviors and decisions. Don’t know if hew has impaired executive function as a result of age related or other cognitive decline or if this has always been his behavior, but if you do not feed his bad behavior he’ll likely try somewhere else. Let that happen.</p>
<p>As for a hospital eval, unless he is acutely dangerous to himself or others (and the definition of tha may vary widely by clinical judgement) they wont admit him. But if they do, social services should not discharge him without a discharge plan and a place for him to go (which is NOT your problem and NOT your house).</p>
<p>The annoying relative who accused you of being mean or selfish, what exactly were they offering to do to be of assistance? Nada, I would guess. Reminds me of the neighborhood residents who criticize and complain to the board members of the HOA about something but wont do a darned thing to help.</p>
<p>Don’t give him the money, Ellebud. At least you’ll be able to live with yourself. And if he’s threatening to kill himself - well, that makes him a danger to himself and others. It’s an extreme solution, but a mental hygiene warrant may be the answer. I don’t know how things are in your state, but here, he would be picked up by the county sherriff and taken to a hospital for observation. It’s ugly, but it might save his or someone else’s life.</p>
<p>My mom will be 82 next month. She stopped driving at night about five years ago and has been making noises about stopping altogether. She lives in a retirement community with bus and car service, my brother, a SAHD, lives about 10 minutes away and I live an hour away, so transportation in and of itself is not a problem. I only hope when the time comes, she makes the decision on her own instead of forcing my brother and I to make it for her.</p>
<p>Bev - What would you do if he was some guy you didn’t know well who lived down the block? Just say’n.</p>
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<p>My mother is 90 and still drives. I have observed her, and I think she is safe. She does not have dementia, and has always been an excellent driver who has never had any kind of an accident. She sees an eye doctor regularly. She is very conscious of the issue and is one of those who self-regulates: she doesn’t drive at night, except in unusual circumstances, and then she keeps it short, on familiar local roads. She also avoids driving at rush hour. It will be tough if she gets to the point that she can’t drive, because she lives alone in a suburban area with no public transportation. There is some kind of rides for seniors thing, though.</p>
<p>My FIL had Parkinsons and drove longer than he should have. The family talked to him about stopping but could not talk him out of driving. Eventually he was in an accident … he hit a family van full of kids … totally his fault … luckily no one was hurt. Other than at a funeral it is the most shaken I ever saw him in 20 years. He went home handed his keys to wife, sold the car with days, and never drove again.</p>
<p>I get the issues with losing independence … however the downside risk to others in no way related to this decision, IMO, are WAY-WAY too high to help enable a driver who should not drive.</p>
<p>(PS - after letting my Mom drive too long I now believe the ethical position is to not only not enable an elderly driver who should not driving from driving but also to proactively work to stop them from driving)</p>
<p>It has nothing to do with how manipulative or punitive or obnoxious Uncle is. It has to do with driving. Period.</p>
<p>My mother, with whom I had a wonderful relationship, realized in a moment of what she would have called weakness - but I call lucidity - that she shouldn’t drive when she moved into assisted living. She gave us her car. (No, she never had dementia, but most people have a blind spot when it comes to their driving.)</p>
<p>Two months later, she asked for the car back! I said no. She told me that she’d go buy another car. I said, “Fine. But I’m not taking you there, or to the DMV or to the insurance agency. You want to do it, you do it yourself. It’d be one thing if you were only a danger to yourself. But you’re likely going to take out a family of four, and I won’t be a party to that.”</p>
<p>She never bought the car.</p>
<p>^^ and I’m sure she really didn’t miss the driving either. I all ready tired of driving and have no intention of driving when I’m 90 or so. I’ll happily take the senior van. My suburban town has a senior van that goes to all the Churches, doctors offices, grocery stores and the train station. It does a marvelous business and is funded partially by the town and the rest private donation.</p>
<p>I think about this a topic quite a bit, with regards to myself–which is why I would only retire to a community with superior public transportation and walkable shopping. We are so dependent on auto travel because of the way our communities are structured. It’s easy to see how loss of driving privileges would be isolating and downright frightening to someone who needs a car to go, well, anywhere. I think if it were easier to be an active member of society without a car, people wouldn’t be so reluctant to stop driving. At my current home, I would have to depend on the very slow and unreliable local taxi company to buy a quart of milk, go to the library, or visit a friend. I couldn’t live like that, and I can imagine how easy it would be to convince myself that I’m still a fine driver. So he quest for the perfect retirement spot continues…</p>
<p>OP, you don’t really have an ethical dilemma–you have a communications dilemma. How do you say no while minimizing hurt feelings? I suggest you say the following: “I’d like to help you, but my spouse says I can’t because we might be liable for damages from an accident if we provided the money.” Or your lawyer. Or somebody else you can blame.</p>
<p>I have recently been diagnosed with the beginnings of parkinsons. It is, as the neurologist said, with the new meds really controllable for a long time. (Yes, I know…cancers and vision concerns…and now this. I have never had a driving citation. But the first thing that I asked was about driving. No problem for many years he said.</p>
<p>My husband and my kids (and future kids in law) all said that they would set up a schedule for driving me when it and if it is needed. Mr. Ellebud said that we would hire a driver when family wasn’t available. </p>
<p>We will manage.</p>