An Open Letter to the Woman Who Told My Family to Go Back to China

Parent Cafe
41

Igloo, you’re right, but you’re also wrong. Except for people with visible disabilities, deformities or racial minorities, most people can choose to be private about their personal travails whenever they want. If it’s written on the color of your skin or the shape of your eyes you are subject to intrusion about private matters wherever you go. It IS a different scenario entirely. My daughter was adopted from China, and I do believe she has a more conformist personality than she normally would (if she were in the racial majority)…she does everything in her power to be unobtrusive and to “fit in” to offset being Asian in a small, conservative community. Of course, if she had a naturally bold personality, she might play her hand differently (and many do) but growing up with subtle but constant reminders that she’s not a “real American” (even if that’s patently untrue) HAS affected her perception of herself. Is she basically happy and well-balanced with loyal friends? … Yes, she is…but that is not to say that those of us in the majority shouldn’t try to stand in others’ shoes and stand up to offensive and damaging remarks.

busdriver, I think your husband’s fine. I think /hope it’s usually easy to know who is just being a hail-fellow-met-well kind of guy…

42

"busdriver, I think your husband’s fine. I think /hope it’s usually easy to know who is just being a hail-fellow-met-well kind of guy… "

That’s good to know! He’d be horrified if anyone thought he was being rude. He’s pretty well traveled, and usually has a good knowledge about different areas of our town, country and the world. He’d be very excited if the person actually was from China, since he’s spent some time over there and loved it.

43

So that’s the thing - when is it racism, and when is it an observation of cultural behavior that may be negative in the eyes of someone from another culture?

Farting in public is not considered polite in the US (well, where I live anyway), and people generally get embarrassed and apologize if it happens. Belching loudly, the same thing. But apparently some folks don’t get this, or don’t care. Scratching your crotch in front of others is also frowned upon, unless you’re a MLB player.

Here’s an example. I have met many wonderful folks who happen to be from Egypt - either in the course of our conversations, they mentioned being from Egypt or someone else had mentioned where they were from. However, I have a co-worker from Egypt who would meet the “rude” criteria IMHO. He scratches his crotch in front of people, he belches without a care, he carries food around in his hands and offers people some, etc. If he was from NYC, I’d say to myself, “boy, that’s what urban education is about”. And if I knew he was from Egypt before I met those other folks from Egypt, I might say to myself “hmm, so that’s an Egyptian…”

And that’s what it comes down to. If you don’t see people from various cultures and ethnicities, you group them all together, and perhaps the worst example becomes the model in your mind. In fact, I once (but afterwards kicked myself) asked a student where she was from, because I thought by her accent she was from the Caribbean. She actually was from the US but her parents were from France and from Africa so she had a bit of an accent. Is it okay to ask where someone is from? At all? Should I have felt embarrassed asking a question that used to be polite?

The problem with racism and generalizations about people’s traits relative to behavior of one or many is that it is inherent to group people. I do know a few people who look like me, not that many, and of course they immediately become smart and talented and insightful etc. And I know people who look like my one brother immediately become oafs. We can’t change that, but we can try to understand each other.

Are all poodles smart and pretty like my dog was? Or are they all fat and eat from the table like my spouse’s grandmother’s dog did? Are all pitbulls killers? Are strawberry preserves always too sweet?

I once read a letter to the editor about how a National Geographic article “dared” to mention that a scientist was “pretty with a blond pony tail”. How it was sexist to describe her looks. So since then, I’ve paid attention to subsequent articles. I was reading an issue and a male scientist was described as “rough-looking, whose clothes tended towards Carhartt”. Is that okay, or is that not okay?

44

busdriver11 and rhandco, I have to admit I struggle with both sides of this issue myself. It’s a complex thing…no perfect answers, for sure. If we could never ask anyone anything about themselves for risk of offending we would live in a very sterile world.

Before I became the mother of an Asian child, I was a world traveler who originally hailed from the deep South, with ancestors who fought for the Confederacy. My husband is Jewish (from NYC), and his family passed through Ellis Island in the "30s from Germany. I certainly have felt the strain of wondering whether I have misspoken or not spoken up enough! Whenever I hear a West African or a certain South American accent I long to find out if the speaker is originally from areas where I have lived or travelled. I used to start these conversations more often than I do now… I took it for granted that the person in question would love to talk about his/her original homeland and would “get” that I meant well. I suppose that now I’ve seen the issue from my daughter’s standpoint I’m more sensitive about whether/if/how I broach any given conversation. But that’s not to say I don’t…I guess I offer a little more about myself first and why I’m curious and I think that people pick up on the sincerity. And I apologize if I sense I’ve crossed a boundary. I do hope that people can know when a conversation is respectful and when it is not…

45

“The problem with racism and generalizations about people’s traits relative to behavior of one or many is that it is inherent to group people. I do know a few people who look like me, not that many, and of course they immediately become smart and talented and insightful etc. And I know people who look like my one brother immediately become oafs. We can’t change that, but we can try to understand each other.”

Now those are some things to consider, I’d never really thought about that. Funny, I have a tendency that when I see an overweight woman, I assume that she must be kind, smart and hilarious, like a dear loved one in my life is. And of course, that isn’t always so. When I see an elderly grizzled mountain man who is sloppily dressed, I assume he’s an eccentric thinker like my dad, when others might assume he’s destitute, or an old guy with dementia, by his appearance.

46

With that conclusion being said, perhaps that’s why experience with people of varying backgrounds is encouraged. :slight_smile:

47

“With that conclusion being said, perhaps that’s why experience with people of varying backgrounds is encouraged.”

Agreed. And sameness is very boring. If everyone you associate with, looks like you, thinks similarly to you, has everything in common…boring.

48

Folks who travel often or have privilege to live in diffrent parts of the world, usually develope a very diffrent perspective then people who hardly ever leave their state. They are usually very skeptic of others who look, talk or act different.

49

IMO, it is not just the question…

Conversation 1.
A: Where are you from?
B: From Seattle.
A: I heard you guys get 2 feet of rain in July! Is it really that rainy? (with a wink).
B: Yeah, it can rain hard… (and the pleasant chat continues with B revealing that he moved to the US from XYZ…)

Conversation 2.
A: Where are you from?
B: From Seattle.
A: I hear an accent… So where are you really from?
B: From Seattle. This is the Seattle accent. (wink)
A: Laughs. Says something about his own Texas accent or something like that and that the accents never go away, etc. (and the pleasant chat continues with B revealing that he moved to the US from XYZ…)

Conversation 3.
A: Where are you from?
B: From Seattle.
A: I hear an accent… So where are you really from?
B: From Seattle. This is the Seattle accent. (wink)
A: You are kidding. So where are you REALLY from? Where’s home?
B: (Becomes defensive.) I told you - I am from Seattle. (Finishes his drink, puts a $20 on the counter, and walks out of the bar).

50

@busdriver11 - I even do that with names. I tend to not like names that I associate with people I didn’t much like or respect in the past. As in, I would never have named my kids certain names not because they aren’t good names, but because I had associations with them that were not positive. I think some of that is just human nature.

Now, of course, I don’t think I do that with ethnicities…but I’ve been lucky enough to have traveled and encountered a variety of ethnicities, so maybe that’s why. I can understand how somebody who has never traveled or been exposed to other cultures might develop erroneous preconceived notions from one or two negative encounters. I’d like to think that good education and exposure to positive images in mass media will cause this sort of thing to subside.

51

@busdriver11 of course most people mean well and are just curious about peoples’ accents, hometowns, etc. I often ask people where they’re from because many people in Oregon weren’t born here. I think it’s usually clear that people are just friendly. But like in the video, when people follow up the question with, “No, really. Where are you from?” and keep at it, keep at it-- it’s still often well-meaning, and I don’t mind it, but it can be frustrating, and like mentioned above, when your ‘uniqueness’ is ‘written in the color of your skin or the shape of your eyes’, it can make some of us wary and watchful.

Like @inthegarden’s daughter, I also became a ‘super-assimilator’ growing up in the midwest. I denounced my Asian heritage by telling people I hated Chinese food, hated hearing my parents speaking Chinese at home, etc etc. I made sure people heard my lack of accent as soon as possible when in public. I didn’t embrace my heritage til very late, and I’m sure I hurt my parents because of that :frowning:

52

" I think it’s usually clear that people are just friendly. But like in the video, when people follow up the question with, “No, really. Where are you from?” and keep at it, keep at it-- it’s still often well-meaning, and I don’t mind it, but it can be frustrating"

I don’t consider someone questioning where you "really"are from as well meaning, that sounds ignorant and downright rude. I might give them the benefit of the doubt that they aren’t trying to be impolite, but I doubt I’d be inclined to spend much time talking to them.

53

Yup.

54

I have suggested to my daughter that she return the question to ask “and where is your family ancestry from ?” Politely spoken, it could open up a conversation while making the point that white Americans also came from another continent. I don’t think she’s done it yet ( she’s only thirteen) but I hope she develops the confidence to feel she has right to.

55

It is not offensive to ask “where are you from?” if that is what you actually mean, and you accept the answers given.

What does bother people is if, after an answer of a domestic location, you follow with “no, where are you really from?”, indicating that you do not believe that the person is from the same country, or you are really asking “what is your ethnic ancestry?”.

56

I think BunsenBurner’s conversation C implies that defensiveness is out of line and unnecessary in a friendly conversation. And it is…if you have a reason to know the intent is friendly and if you’re not exhausted from having dealt with that same conversation a dozen other times that day. But I think remaining undefensive is kind of a luxury for people who have not faced much discrimination or trauma or the expectation of explaining your existence for the gazillianth time.

What if you no longer want to call your original home “home”? What if you have struggled mightily to become an American citizen and to be respected as such? What if home has been destroyed by war or famine and you just don’t want to talk about it in a trivial conversation? What if “home” is not a place favored by many Westerners and you just don’t want to deal with the response you almost invariably get? What if you come from a highly cultured background but people tend to assume otherwise by your nationality? What if you were adopted and just don’t feel like sharing private history with a stranger? What if you have no accent at all and your family has already spent generations building the United States side by side with the Irish and the Swedes? I imagine the questions could get old very fast.

57

Reminds me of a video:

http://fusion.net/video/354460/how-microaggressions-are-like-mosquito-bites/

58

Actually, I think I misread BunsenBurner’s post… did you mean the defensiveness came from the questioner’s insistence “No…where are you REALLY from…” My apologies…I agree then with the post…when the questioner is gentle and does a little humorous self-disclosure , it can mean a word of difference in the conversation IMO.

59

Niquii77…this is BRILLIANT!!!

60

I experienced a lot of this growing up in the NYC of the '80s. And I had similar experiences with the poster who said she was initially ashamed of her family’s Asian-American background because of all the negative racist commentary/questions/actions.

What helped in my case was the fact I decided one day I wasn’t going to take the bullying BS from the older neighborhood kids in my Catholic elementary school in second grade. When one bully who was much bigger and several grades ahead of me attempted to assault me and sling racial slurs against me, I fought back by literally stoning him until he broke off the attack.

It was also fortunate the principal was well aware of his racist behavior towards me and a few other Asian-American/recent immigrant kids who weren’t Caucasian-looking and used the moment of his parents complaining about my actions to tell them off about their son’s bullying history and their lack of response regarding prior notifications of his violent racist behavior towards younger kids, my actions were fully justified under self-defense, and if he persisted in his bullying ways that they were strongly encouraged to find another school for their bullying-inclined son.

Parents were stunned into humbled silence while I did my best to hide my glee. Never had another issue with bullying or racist tauntings in elementary school or in my old neighborhood.

Especially after word got around and some older neighbors(White Irish and Latino(Dominican/Cuban/Puerto Rican)) and their kids came over to praise me for standing up to the bully and to tell me they had my back.

Some of the racial bullying returned when I went out of my neighborhood to attend junior high at a supposed program for gifted kids…especially with one particular Caucasian kid who was an out and proud White supremacist…complete with wearing the swastika and praising Hitler whenever he could before being sent to the dean by the teachers and the higher-level educrats bailing him out because he and his gang of bullies were “poor misunderstood kids”. As the educrats were more inclined to protect him and his group, teachers/dean powerless, and local cops hamstrung despite catching them mugging local passersby as well as students…my friends and I ended up having to settle the issue with a series of afterschool fights in 8th grade. Lost most of them, but won the very last one.

That was sweetly timed as it happened not too long after I received notification I was admitted to some public magnet high schools where there was not only practically no violence, but also where I wouldn’t be nearly as much of a minority as I had been up to that point.

An added bonus was finding out several years later during a visit to the junior high and meeting one of the local cops who was around back in my middle school days that all of the bullies my friends and I had issues with and who were protected by higher-level educrats were now serving serious time for various felonies committed during/after high school. Several still have at least a decade or more left before they will be released based on that cop’s account.

In my midwest college town in the mid-late '90s, did have a few incidents of drivers driving by yelling racial slurs at me while I was minding my business walking. In one case, I fell back into my old NYC habits and gave him a one-fingered salute in response in which case he stopped and wanted to have it out with me. Just at that moment, he noticed a cop car driving up from a few blocks away and went back into his car and sped off.

There was also an idiot who attempted to tell me to “speak English” when my Chinese international student friends and I were conversing in Mandarin near the college town square. Gave him a piece of my mind and effectively told him to mind his own business.

Indeed. It especially rankles for the Japanese-American relatives in my extended family considering they’ve been in the US since the 1890’s and thus, find many “real murikans” asking them such questions are from families who have been in the US for far less time than theirs. And the same could be said for many Asian-Americans who have been multi-generationed Americans who could trace their family’s history in the US back to the 1890’s or sometimes much further back.