Andrew Giuliani Sues Duke University

<p>Interesting story in today's Raleigh News & Observer. It does sound like the kid got hosed by Duke's new golf coach. Despite the estrangement from Papa Rudy, it seems son learned one thing from dad; 'don get mad, get even.'</p>

<p>Sounds like he simply couldn't hack it. 12th best on a team that needed six players. If he doesn't like the coach, and is such a valuable asset to a team, he should have no difficulty transferring.</p>

<p>I don't think being recruited to play for a Division I team guarantees any player a 4 year spot on a team. I've known kids that were recruited to play Div. I baseball and once they got to the school and worked out with the team, they weren't given a spot on the team. With sports, there are not guarantees. If golf is more of a priority to him than attending Duke for the education, he should transfer to a school that has an interest in him to play golf. It seems very petty to sue a school for being cut from a sports team. Of course, this is just my opinion of the issue.</p>

<p>A good case for the English rule--loser pays the attorneys fees for both sides.</p>

<p>Golf at a D1 school is a really cut throat sport. Even figure skaters know you that you need to get out of the kitchen if you can't stand the heat. If he really is good, he'll find a place to play. If he just wants to stay at Duke AND play golf ... that might be a tough combination.</p>

<p>He is a senior, so transferring doesn't make a lot of sense. In a quick read of one news story, he was suspended from the team for what AG considered "minor infractions." Doesn't sound like a "you're cut" story.</p>

<p>This might be one of those perfect storm-type situations between two people who aren't going to work out together. </p>

<p>The complaint is difficult to grasp. It sounds like he's effectively a walk-on who is being run-off by the new coach (along with others). Unless he turned down some athletic scholarships at other schools to pay full fare at Duke, with some bizarre promise of lifetime access to the course, it doesn't seem like he has much of a case. </p>

<p>Plus he's making himself unemployable.</p>

<p>I think the Giulianis can afford to pay full fare.</p>

<p>Well, I don't know if it's a typical Republican response; I'm not going to touch that one. But it sounds like a spoiled, bratty response. </p>

<p>If he really wants to be a professional golfer, he doesn't need to be on Duke's golf team to make it happen.</p>

A good case for the English rule--loser pays the attorneys fees for both sides.


<p>Amen. This is also how it works in Canada. It prevents frivolous lawsuits. I don't know if this is the case here, but, in general, the U.S. legal system could benefit from that change.</p>

<p>No, the "English Rule" for lawsuits would be a disaster here in the U.S.A. Many victims with a legitimate loss or greivance would be intimidated by powerful would-be defendants. Let judges determine the fitness of a legal claim [the way it is now]. That's what they're paid to do.</p>

I think the Giulianis can afford to pay full fare.

I'm am pretty certain that they do. I vaquely remember Andrew winning a scholarship that the family turned down do the $$$ could go to a more needy family. Perhaps that is why they are suing? They may have turned down the $$ with the provision that his spot on the team would be safe? Some schools DO guarantee a kid's scholarship will remain intact, even if he's on the bench or injured for four years. Is Duke one of those schools? Who the heck knows what was promised to whom. Dadx is correct, though. Who would ever want to hire him?</p>

<p>Both his dad & his step dad are lawyers. Sue. Sue. Sue. I would love to see a loser pays system in place to get control of our litigious society.</p>

No, the "English Rule" for lawsuits would be a disaster here in the U.S.A. Many victims with a legitimate loss or greivance would be intimidated by powerful would-be defendants.


<p>Funny, but it works just fine in Canada. Victims with a legitimate loss or grievance have no issue with being intimidated.</p>

<p>Do you all remember the kid's bratty antics at his father's first mayoral inauguration? It was quite clear even then that this was the kid you didn't want you daughter to meet in college!</p>

<p>Yes, and I generally like little kids and have a fair amount of patience. But I remember wanting to reach through the tv screen & drag him off the stage.</p>

Victims with a legitimate loss or grievance [in Canada] have no issue with being intimidated.


<p>How could one possibly know this? </p>

<p>Surely the fact that there are some (even many) people with "legitimate loss[es] or grievance[s]" in Canada who litigate doesn't mean that there aren't others - perhaps many more others - who do not (because they're "intimidated" by the system).</p>

<p>I don't think a lawsuit is the answer, especially given the discretion accorded to coaches as to which players should be on their team. </p>

<p>But I sure hope none of this young man's allegations are true. My unfortunate guess is that many of them are in fact accurate. </p>

<p>Duke should have higher standards than most Division 1 schools. It for the most part has real student athletes (ok, many of them not equal in academic qualifications, but they are still at least competent students), and should in no way act like a sports factory with a school attached - a description that can fairly apply to any number of big name schools. </p>

<p>Given this, Duke won't win consistently in the long run unless it earns a reputation for treating its young people fairly and well. This doesn't mean that people can't be dropped off a team for performance or other material reasons - but it sure does mean that a coach has to be fair. Think any of this would have happened if the coach here simply and consistently said, "Look, you have been a contributing member, and this is a really tough decision, but I have got to build for the future and can't honor a roster spot for you?" The coach likely didn't want to do that because seniors typically (and for good reason) don't get treated like this and are viewed, even if not great performers, as key to maintaining continuity to a program. So it appears he acted arbitrarily to both drive this young man off and humiliate him. Inexcusable. </p>

<p>If the Lord of the Flies incident is true, where a "vote" was had on his staying on the team, I will be appalled. If I were the AD, I would fire the coach. This isn't a vote but an exercise in humiliation - those kids will only vote the way the coach wants. Maybe Bob Knight can do that at Indiana to the kid he choked - Neil Reed - but Duke has to walk a far better walk. </p>

<p>And believe me - I competed at the Div. 1 level on scholarship - I strongly believe in coaches being really tough when they need to. But there is a difference between being tough and unfair, and my suspicions here don't bode favorably for Duke - even if the lawsuit is not a winner. </p>

<p>Duke desperately needs someone like Terry Sanford back at the helm - he, along with Chancellor Ken Pye - made the university truly great by striving for excellence while always trying to do the right thing.</p>

<p>Seems that Duke + Giulani was a heavenly marriage as they truly deserve each other. Of course, the application committee might have a looked at the meaning of marriage in that family, and be less blinded by the formidable lure of having a presidential "son" behind its gilded walls. How quickly one's star is fading!</p>

<p>If it's not the irresistible attraction of riding Ralph Lauren's private plane or sitting on its company BOD, there is always ... something in Durham!</p>

<p>"So it appears he acted arbitrarily to both drive this young man off and humiliate him. Inexcusable."</p>

<p>Duh! He was 12th best on a team of 14, where the coach was reducing the team to 6. Don't see anything arbitrary about it. He couldn't cut it. </p>

<p>Giuliani's</a> son sues Duke over golf team dismissal - Yahoo! News</p>

<p>A word or two about sports scholarships; a few years ago I helped a relative steer through the recruiting process. I was surprised to learn then that sports scholarships are renewable annually and can be 'withdrawn' for reasons that have nothing to do with either academic standing or personal conduct. The NCAA allows this. Schools acknowledge the policy but many virtually guarantee the 4-year free ride nevertheless. As I understand it, Andrew Giuliani [his parents] paid his own tuition, but this situation still may not pass the smell test.</p>

<p>LakeWashington -- Some schools do honor the scholarship for four years. Even if a kid is seriously injured in preseason training as a freshman. I have no idea if Duke does. Or if Giuliani had entered into some type of guaranteed spot on the team agreement in lieu of the $$ scholarship. An arrangement of that type might violate NCAA rules. Who knows. </p>

<p>No matter what led up to his being cut, he would have looked a heck of a lot classier if he'd quietly accepted it & worked on his game.</p>