<p>I loved the kids in that National Lampoon movie…and made sure my kids watched it as well…a classic!!</p>
<p>Sounds like you don’t like them very much. So answer a question with a question, and turn it back to them. Or simply say “I’d rather not talk about that- lets talk about something else” and then ask them a question. </p>
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<p>I’m sorry, but if this is how you convey your ideas to your relatives, I can see why they don’t listen to your advice. </p>
<p>You make it sound like your way is the only right way to “position” children…and for the record…we gave our kids opportunities…but not in the name of “positioning them” for anything. It was up to the kids to avail themselves of the opportunities we offered as choices. </p>
<p>If you don’t want to spend your holiday with these relatives, and it sounds like you don’t, I suggest you change your plans (at least for this year). Tell them you’ve decided to do X and you can’t join them. It seems like you need some time away from them.</p>
<p>Why is it I’m envisioning the extended family out shooting hoops and an hour or two later a bloody nose, numerous bruised toes, a couple of cracked ribs… Maybe a little break from each other would be a good thing.</p>
<p>just tell 'em you learned a lot on College Confidential…and they can either join…or not. </p>
<p>That can be your pat answer to all questions…How did your kids make their lists? CC…how did you figure out FA? CC…and so forth.</p>
<p>I’m sorry, it would appear my frustration has bled into my posts here. As for “our template or the highway” we don’t have all the answers but we all agree the surest way <em>not</em> to prepare your children for success in academics or life in general: let them sit around all day like bumps on a log watching TV and playing on their phone, while failing to follow through on any of the advice you have ever asked us for. That is the issue, the parents do not provide opportunities or structure with any sort of regularity. Flighty and lazy parents are surprised they produce flighty and lazy children with limited opportunities. When things don’t work out it’s never their parenting shortcomings. Unhappiness is displaced onto visiting in-laws. It’s not because we live in a slightly better community, it’s because we set the bar high for our kids, we really value high marks, we encourage them to join clubs and volunteer their time, we make them turn off the iPhone and read books as a family. It’s not easy – easy is letting kids sit on their rear end and watch TV from 4 to 10pm – which make the Thanksgiving remarks the most vulgar and misplaced I’ve ever heard.</p>
<p>OK, you clearly didn’t like my earlier suggestion that you should change yourself and stop poking your nose into other people’s affairs. So here’s a counter suggestion. Just have an all out fight. Just say everything to them that you wrote here. Print it out and show it to them. That will cause a permanent rift and they will be out of your hair and you won’t be bothered any more by their alleged shortcomings.</p>
<p>What do you think? Tape it and post a link as I would like to see how the fight goes. I love fights.</p>
<p>My opinion…nothing good will come of you sharing any advice with your relatives. Clearly you think your values are better than theirs. And maybe they are…but saying your relatives are lazy and flighty likely comes across in every piece of “advice” you give them.</p>
<p>While you feel your intentions are good ones, it is my opinion that you need to stop providing any advice.</p>
<p>If you want a relationship,with these kids and their parents, it’s time to accept them as the people they are, instead of trying to turn them into what you think they should be.</p>
<p>So maybe when you posted you mostly wanted to vent and be heard? Perhaps that’s what BIL and SIL want at times, too. Someone to listen, not necessarily give advice. I hope you all find a way to get along, appreciate what each of you brings to the party, and enjoy that you have each other.</p>
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VanGlenn - You sound like a bit of a tiger mom. Maybe you should “make” your kids join ROTC, so you could have additional things to talk about (with your BIL/SIL) at holiday parties. 
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<p>VanGlenn, I think I am seeing what you are trying to say. I know that my relatives will ask me how my kids accomplished a goal, i.e. a good score on the ACT. I will tell them what we did, practice tests, work on the timing, go over the tests to see mistakes and correct them, things like that. But they want a magical response, something that doesn’t require any work for the same result. </p>
<p>The fact is that it takes a village to raise a child and sometimes you have to work at it. That sometimes you have to be the parent and not their friend. </p>
<p>What I would do is step away and not offer anymore advice. They have shown you that although they ask, they don’t want it. Don’t do them anymore favors, if they ask, be vague and then promptly forget. Opps, I guess I didn’t get around to that. Don’t brag about your kids and don’t notice what their kids do or don’t do. </p>
<p>Then when your kids are happy successful adults and theirs are a mess. Smile at your H and self congratulate yourself and feel smug. Just among yourselves, it’s ok to. But don’t let them know ;)</p>
<p>And celebrate Christmas with them. It doesn’t accomplish anything to be annoyed with relatives. </p>
<p>It’s great that you’re so committed to helping your sibling’s children. There’s plenty you can do, especially since they seem to be local. Arranging to get them into a club with your child was very nice. If the parents are having a hard time getting their children to meetings you could offer to drive them there now and then. If you think they could use more cultural experiences, you could take them to the theater or a museum. I have a sister who thinks every kid should see a play on Broadway at least once. Knowing it was out of range financially for a couple of our siblings, my sister simply ordered the tickets and took us all as a birthday celebration for our mother. It was a wonderful experience. But excursions don’t have to be expensive. My son loves history and has fond memories of touring inexpensive museums with his grandmother and stopping for an ice cream cone on the way home.</p>
<p>It’s really easy to offer advice and get upset when people don’t seem to be following it. It’s more difficult to be committed to making a difference and investing time and effort to see it happen. It’s a good start to capitalize on interests your nieces and nephews share with one of your kids. I’d keep my eyes open for more opportunities like that. Good luck.</p>
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So if you value these things, why chastise the Chua family in this thread <a href=“Tiger Cub - Amy Chua's Daughter is Joining the Army - #29 by VanGlenn - Parent Cafe - College Confidential Forums”>Tiger Cub - Amy Chua's Daughter is Joining the Army - #29 by VanGlenn - Parent Cafe - College Confidential Forums; for doing the same?</p>
<p>It’s pretty clear to me that you did not really want advice when you posted this question. The question, “should we not see them for Christmas” on account of their advice-rejection, has got a pretty resounding “no” here, yet you keep reframing it to get a different answer.</p>
<p>It sounds like this runs in the family. I am being a little facetious here, but totally seriously, can you maybe make use of how the answers you’re getting here, and your rejection of them, might give you insight to the way the relatives feel when they get taken to task?</p>
<p>I have a niece who spent her childhood glued to a screen and wouldn’t talk to adults. She seemed very rude. In reality she was heartbreakingly shy. When she was 12 she spent a week with me and I couldn’t get her to go to the library, or museum, or aquarium or shopping or anything. If we went out to eat, she couldn’t even speak up to order her meal. She was glued to her phone and in almost constand contact with her friends. I called her parents in despair and they suggested just to let her watch tv, so I spent 5 days sitting on the couch with her watching Disney channel. I think it might have been a bonding experience even though we never spoke. She’s 20, a college junior with good grades, majoring in a medical field, active in her sorority, very nice long term boyfriend. Absolutely charming and one of the most poised young women I know.</p>
<p>They grow up.</p>
<p>Garland’s post above is extremely insightful. </p>
<p>How does it feel when you’ve asked for advice, been given it, and the advice turns out to be something you’re not willing to do? It’s ok that you don’t want to follow our advice. But you keep asking, hoping that we will change it. </p>
<p>"Flighty and lazy parents are surprised they produce flighty and lazy children with limited opportunities. "</p>
<p>Yes, it may very well be a shame. However, it really isn’t your problem. I’m assuming these children are being taken care of (food, shelter, clothing) and loved, and that they aren’t being physically or emotionally abused. What if they “only” grow up to have x type of job vs y type of job? I wonder if you think there is shame in not being an upper middle class professional. </p>
<p>It seems to me pretty much the norm on this board to frame a question as asking for advice or for opinions when the reality is the poster just wants confirmation and support for a particular point of view or, as Deborah T suggests, just wants to vent. Or just wants a platform to argue against the opposing view. imho ymmv</p>
<p>Ha - you are right, Alh! Guilty as charged! </p>