<p>Am I the only one who rolls his eyes when we hear the talking heads call (again) for a national dialogue on race in the wake of the Gates affair? For those of you who think that such a dialogue would be useful, I will now provide a summary of every point that could be made.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Slavery was a very bad thing, and African-Americans have every right to resent the way that their ancestors were treated.</p></li>
<li><p>In general, in the United States of America, it is better to be white than black, except for rare exceptions involving affirmative action.</p></li>
<li><p>Black people generally are distrustful of white people, but are at times willing to make exceptions in specific cases. White people generally have some level of vague unease around black people, but are at times willing to make exceptions in specific cases.</p></li>
<li><p>White people often have views about the incidence of racial prejudice that black people think is naive. Black people often have views about the incidence of racial prejudice that many white people would think is paranoid. (I suspect that a purple Martian viewing the situation from afar would find the objective truth to be somewhere in between, but I can’t prove it).</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Not really. For instance, here is my take on your first 4 points:</p>
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<p>People who appear to be “white” or who identify their race as white avoid a number of common obstacles set up through cultural and social bias, yes. However, there are more and more situations where it is advantageous to claim ‘non-white’ status, especially where educational placement and government programs and hiring are concerned. As a whole, people identified as “white” enjoy greater economic and political influence, however there is no longer causality now present at the individual level.</p>
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<p>I do not see this as generally correct. I work with and know people of a wide range of races and cultures, and while there are mistrustful individuals, in the main I do not see this condition in common practice. Where I do see it, it is commonly the result of past injustices against an individual influencing broader opinion.</p>
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<p>I lean towards general agreement, except that in my experience the more direct personal experience people have getting to know others outside their race, the less comon this opinion is found. Therefore, from where I sit the problem is a cultural bias on all parts which is best addressed by direct experience with a wide variety of people and exposition of their perspectives. I have no direct experience on the opinions of purple Martians. ;)</p>
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<p>But this misses the point that many of us have an injustice or many in the past. My own family was nearly wiped out in the Civil War; my ancestors were Anabaptists who specifically fought to end Slavery, which they believed was an atrocity and outrage against all that is good and right - instead of benefitting from being “white”, my family lost everything and spent two generations in poverty because of the decision to fight against Slavery. Before coming to America, my family lived in Scotland, where we were massacred by British invasions and the survivors thrown off the land and sent into indentured service to British lords in North America. No one has ever apologized to my family for what we suffered, nor suggested that our voice should even be heard.</p>
<p>My wife is Chinese, and could tell you that while blacks suffered as second-class citizens, well into the 20th Century Asians were not even allowed citizenship here, and murders of Asians were commonly not even investigated by the police until 1950. Yet no one calls out for justice for Yellow-skinned people, no one even pays attention to the lynch mobs of 19th-Century San Francisco or the “Gentleman’s Agreement” which denied basic human rights to Asians long after Blacks finally began to receive some recognition of rights. When W.E.B. DuBois was lionized, gifted Chinese authors were denied the opportunity to be published. While Dr. Carver was denied full credit for his work, Chinese students were denied admittance at all to universities across the country. At a time when Frederick Douglass shamed America for its treatment of Blacks and his presence was de rigour at upper-class gatherings, it was not even illegal to murder a ‘coolie’.</p>
<p>And what of the Jews, the Hispanics, the Roma, the Albanians, and so on? If we are to properly discuss Race, let’s not lock anyone out. Let’s not have one group lecture everyone else. And let’s not forget that con men - of all races - have played victimization and racism to their personal advantage for years. If we are to have this discussion, let’s make sure it does good for us all, not just whatever group is able to gain the most from it politically and economically.</p>
<p>What I would propose is actually focusing on doing something to help the kids in the inner city. The situation is enormously complicated and difficult, but there are no silver bullets. But, for example, you might help a few kids if you had an open enrollment policy for all of the schools in a metropolitan area, not dependent on which school is closest. I’m not talking about mandatory bussing of anybody anywhere, but simply providing a way for motivated students to get to a school where they have a better chance to succeed.</p>
<p>But beyond that, this endless handwringing by white liberals who think they are accomplishing something by pointing at those bad racists behind the tree just drives me nuts. In a capitalist society, I guess you can’t blame the African-American public intellectuals and quasi-intellectuals who advance their carreers by feeding into the “Oh, Professor (fill in the blank) please tell me about the horrible things that all those bad racists did to you and your people. It will help me feel superior because I’m not one of those bad people. I moved into a neighborhood where there are three rich African-American executives. Why, they even go to the same exclusive private school as my son.”</p>
<p>Don’t get me wrong–I firmly believe that even affluent black people still encounter some racism on a fairly regular basis (although I might disagree with the characterization of specific incidents). But if you don’t believe that to begin with, no high flown national dialogue is going to convince you.</p>
<p>Wasn’t trying to start an argument. My point was, if you complain about something, then what are you going to do to change it. I am frankly tired of people who identify a problem, but take no action finding a solution and then acting on it.</p>
<p>Are you going to actively do something now that you have a solution?</p>
<p>Didn’t say I had a solution. Just don’t like this kind of pompousness.</p>
<p>The only thing that I am willing to say about my personal contribution is that I try and live my life the right way and try to teach my children the right way. Otherwise, my preference is to keep whatever other actions I take private.</p>
<p>I’m sorry, Silvermoonlock. I missed the part, it seems, where you actually followed your own advice and made some specific suggestions to improve this situation.</p>
<p>Since you made such a point of moving things forward, please enlighten us on how you would address the present condition.</p>
<p>I never said the inital idea of having a dialogue was bad to begin with, my solution is already in place. You already disagree and complain about it and that’s fine, but then follow through with the next step. Offer an alternative.</p>
<p>All I’m saying is that if one roll’s one’s eyes at this solution, then offer up something different. That’s pretty much what I teach my kid and expect from my staff. If it isn’t working, tell me why not and how it can be improved.</p>
<p>Sadly I hear it’s broken, but no solutions as to how to fix it.</p>
<p>If all you have to offer is complaints, then by all means, continue.</p>
<p>Just as a nudge, if you were to actually engage in the discussion you say would be a good idea, you might consider responding to my lengthy and detailed comments in post 2.</p>
<p>Unless, of course, you’re just here to tell everyone off and declare victory …</p>
<p>You miss my point alltogether. I am not trying to win or lose. I am not trying to be snarky or smart-assed.</p>
<p>If you don’t like what’s going on, what can you personally do to try and change it? That’s all I’m asking. Nothing more nothing less.</p>
<p>I already stated that what you consider a problem ( or an unacceptable solutiuon ) , is what I consider a solution. I am open to more creative solutions from others. I am asking from those who are complaining, because surely, if they don’t like the status quo, then they can offer an alternative. Heck, I am not even asking you to stop complaining!!</p>
<p>Let’s back track. The OP summararized what he/she believed a national dialogue on race would accomplish. You disagreed with the summary. I asked if a dialogue on race isn’t the answer then what other options are there? And here we are. </p>
<p>Your lengthy response is fine, but all you did is offer an alternative to the summary the OP posted. For the record, I volunteer for organizations that offer a wide scope of services to Black youth. I socialize with my non-Black friends and thier circles so they can see Black people aren’t scary and perhaps the media does show stereotypes. And for the record your lengthy post was pretty much dead on. But surely we can do more? Are we satisfied with things the was they are?</p>
<p>Rant incoming…</p>
<p>My kid asks why I even bother with these boards. I see complaints and whines and insults regularly. However, what may be offensive to me is someone elses reality. I can respect that. I can even respect the right of the group that plants the seeds that Blacks are inferior. My problem with them and others are, If you believe this to be so, what are you going to do about it? Repeat it ad nauseum? That doesn’t fix anything, that’s just whiney. It makes one look like they have an incompletre agenda and can’t figure out how to finish the job, so they are stuck on stupid.</p>
<p>end rant …</p>
<p>So anyway, if you acknowledge there is a problem and I acknowledge there is a problem, why can we not try to solve it …emphasis on we.</p>
<p>and again, if you want to move things forward, make an effort yourself rather than expect others to do it for you.</p>
<p>Yes, I offered an alternative. What have you offered? How have you moved the discussion forward? You chose to enter the conversation, so what, in specific, do you have to suggest?</p>
<p>You say you volunteer. That’s great, so do I. You reach outside your race, but again so do I. Come to that, I married outside my race, and yes there were consequences in my family and with some folks I knew because of that, so I have some experiences that reflect something of the problem as well as representing their own value.</p>
<p>I made an offer to work together and you attack. I offer an olive branch and you attack. </p>
<p>Geez how about re-reading the paragraph direcly above my rant. The sentence starts with…For the record… I gave you my solution. At least I am doing something. No one wants to really solve anything. All they want to do is complain</p>
<p>You flip it around and ask me my solution, so I told you;
1 - I Have no issue with a dialogue - it is a solution<br>
2 - I volunteer - that is a solution,
3 - I socialize with people from backgrounds other than mine so they can be exposed to a real live Black person</p>
<p>I give you 3 solutions, yet you ask me to give you one. Did I miss something. Are we really reading each other posts, or just reading what we want to see?</p>
<p>This is an exercise in futility. No one wants to change race relations because they don’t want to do anything. No one even wants to talk because they already have their preconcieved ideas ready to go on blast. </p>
<p>Well the the dialogue on race is useless, no one wants to listen, no wants to act, so these conversations will continue. OP was correct and I stand corrected. All is well.</p>
<p>The problem comes when we talk about solving the problem. As an example, my father was real old-school; he actually had less problems with me marrying outside my race than he did my sister marrying a guy from the UK. Seems as though what happened a few centuries ago still bothered him, as if he personally had suffered the rapes and pillages of British lords driving our family off the land and out of the country. I’m not kidding, it was a big deal to him all his life. His thing with Asians I could understand; his whole company was wiped out at Bataan in WW2, so the only saving grace for my wife was that she was Chinese; if she’d been Japanese he’d have had a stroke when I told him we were getting married. </p>
<p>I guess what I am saying, is that I don’t think one big sit-down discusison is going to do the job. It takes a thousand instances of getting to know individuals from a wide variety of cultures and backgrounds, to wipe away the background bias we all grow up with, and replace it with real-life experiences, good and bad, that reflect both the culture of the group and the choices of the individual. </p>
<p>I’ve worked as an official certified in three high school sports, so I have been a lot of places and seen a lot of different cultures. I know that there are whole towns full of racism, having worked a football game in Vidor, Texas. I know that there are places where the gang culture deeply poisons the hopes and opportunites of young men, like some of Houston’s Latino neighborhoods. I know there are places where Racism is far more subtle and mixed with money-based Elitism and Old Boy networks, having seen the Woodlands and Bellaire. But I also know that even where an atmosphere and prevailing way of things is pervasive, even there are exceptions, individuals who refuse to be told how to think and act and speak. I have had the great privilege to meet people of every race and both genders, who take their culture and history and use it as a foundation and background to their identity, but who make their own choices and build their success on initiative and sweat and inspiration … you get the idea. I am an individualist, and by that I do not mean that we ignore our cultures and history, but that we are not controlled by those things, that we prevail over the obstacles and find the opportunites throug our own ingenuity and strength, that we build communities of common purpose with anyone with the integrity and honesty to seek the same goals and share the work and credit.</p>
<p>As I said, I have seen those groups who spread Racism <a href=“and%20every%20race%20has%20such%20miscreants”>i</a>* and who play identity politics to gain personal advantage. The way we win over such groups is by building bridges with the good people in every culture and community, neither ignoring differences nor letting them appear more important than they are. It’s not about one group leading everyone else to be more like them, but finding and advancing common cause. The discussion we want, I believe, is an ongoing relationship that leads to those causes and common goals.</p>