Police demand compliance and obedience from anyone they interact with. I think they must, and with some cultural adjustment they will, accept that the public demands honesty and obedience to policy from them.
However, somewhat bad behavior appears to be much more common. Different surveys found that more than a quarter of American adults felt that they have been treated unfairly or harassed by a police officer.
It should not be surprising that low pay makes it harder to attract quality.
Of course, higher pay means being able to hire fewer police officers, but if some of the social work (mental health, addiction, homelessness, etc.) work that falls into police by default could be done at lower cost and greater effectiveness by social workers before they become crises needing police attention, then fewer police officers would be needed.
Well that’s not surprising for Americans to say that. How many people after received a ticket have whined that they didn’t deserve it and paid lawyers to fix it. “I wasn’t speeding that bad, everyone else does it, so many people drive so much worse than me?” Nobody likes to be caught doing something wrong. When I was stopped for rolling through a stop sign, my initial reaction was exactly the same. And my kids were with me in the way to school. I ranted until the officer got to my window. Then it was yes, sir for everything. After I got my ticket and he left I told my kids that while I thought it was a stupid situation. I could have the stop signs configuration changed to be more appropriate (part of my job). In the end, he was right and I was wrong. And he had no idea who I was or my intentions, so I gave him the ultimate respect he deserved for just doing his job. I paid my ticket and went on with my day.
I’ve also been stopped by an uncover policeman for having a hanging air freshener in my car and had my car searched for drugs. He was not nice about it and I was scared to say or do anything that might provoke him. I was also scared he wasn’t even a real policeman, but I didn’t want to ask or take the time to find my phone and call 911 to ask because it might provoke him. But he didn’t know me from Adam. I could have been hiding something awful. Even though I was scared and the thought of me having drugs is laughable, he was just doing his job. But I’m sure many would say they were treated unfairly or harassed in my situation.
My H has been a teacher in a poor school district for 30 years. He has a blemish on his record. A kid went nuts in a classroom kicking a pregnant teacher in the stomach, kicking kids, toppling desks. He was called an bear hugged him and took him to the hall. And his mom opened up an investigation on him for being too rough. He was ultimately cleared, but still. I don’t have a lot of faith in simple surveys. But that doesn’t mean that I don’t believe racism exists and there are some policeman who need to be retrained, fired, or jailed.
Surprising that the PD has undercover officers (presumably you mean not in uniform or displaying their badges or driving marked police cars) make traffic stops for what you describe as a very minor infraction. Criminals impersonating police officers does happen, and PDs do not want to make that easier.
What was the probable cause for the search?
^the hanging air freshener is illegal and often used to cover up the smell of drugs. I had no idea. And I was within 500 feet of a school. I asked my police friend about it later and looked him up in our directory. He was legit. I just didn’t recognize him. But it gives my coworkers a great story to laugh about.
@jym626 that’s exactly my point. Most people are not planning to shoot police. But many many more police are shot or shot at than the tragic criminal police shootings or manslaughter. But hey let’s vilify an entire vocation.
People can’t have it both ways if they want to be intellectually honest.
If you don’t think it’s an issue why do you think vests are worn ? One doesn’t see every day civilians in any community even thinking about such matters.
And better psychological batteries pre hire. And it’s not just the exams. Many state police have vigorous board like interviews with multiple constituents that vet and inquire the candidate under pressure. I say let’s add more of that and representatives from public policy groups and marginalized communities. They vote like a board.
These types of things require more resources not less.
The social worker going out to domestic calls is insane. People here just don’t know how violent and awful these are and usually heavy levels of intoxication and weapons. Good luck with that until some start to be really hurt.
Stringent gun control laws would make an officer’s job much safer.
The social workers need to exist and do their work before the problems become crises that require police attention.
Where exactly are we supposed to find the equally poorly paid social workers willing to risk violence in dealing with addicts, domestic abusers, etc?
Huh? Social workers are already working with those at risk populations. The redistribution of funding would allow for exactly what ucbalumnus is saying - providing services and support for families and individuals before it escalates to needing the police.
Once again, the social work must happen before the situation becomes dangerous enough to require police.
Or would you suggest that social work be formally incorporated into police work (rather than being a significant but under recognized part of it), with appropriate additional education and training required or included for police officers, based on the idea that there is no way to keep these social work problems from becoming police problems?
This topic has nothing to do with gun control.
It simply isn’t possible on CC to have a reasonable discussion concerning the potential benefits and limitations of individual firearm laws.
Ok. I agree with social services support in advance for families.
But what is actually being suggested as well is that social workers be sent to these calls not police.
You think the funding and social worker “pre work” means, in the real world, that this will eliminate domestic violence and 911 calls.
I appreciate the optimism of all have but it’s just not going to happen. There’s not enough social workers on the planet to eliminate the alcoholism and other issues that drive many of these calls.
Aren’t social workers already out there doing this work. Is there a huge social worker battalion working in other careers waiting to sent into the breech to deal with these tough scenarios?
But let’s go for it with the social worker process and defunded police departments happen. Just own the outcomes people. My sense will be a lot of flip flopping and selective memories down the line. Just a prediction.
If you do not want or do not believe that there can be more social workers to stop more of these problems in advance of them becoming police problems, then would you be in favor of formally including social work into the mission of police departments and increasing social work education and training for police officers who already spend a lot of their time as the social workers of last resort?
Hanging air fresheners are illegal? Where? Is it because they hang and could obstruct your vision?
The uncertainty about whether one is being pulled over by a real police officer is why some consider the practice of using undercover officers in unmarked cars to make stops (as opposed to calling an officer in uniform in a marked car to make the actual stop) is a bad idea.
The consequences can be very bad if you guess incorrectly whether someone stopping you is a real police officer.
https://azcapitoltimes.com/news/2020/02/17/bill-limits-use-of-unmarked-cars-for-traffic-enforcement/
I have a good friend that is a State Police Officer. He’s a very nice, laid back person. He has sixteen years on the job and currently works in a division that exposes him to minimal dangerous interactions with the general public.
Last night I asked him what he thought about the widespread disdain for law enforcement that dominates both social and traditional media.
He told me last week he consulted the payroll department and determined the additional amount of each paycheck that would need to be diverted to his pension to allow him to retire four years earlier. He called it “buying back time.”. He’s done. He makes very good money and has no blemishes on his record. He simply wants out because of the current climate. His plan now is to retire in 2025, at 51 years old, with a full military pension and State Police pension. He said he’ll probably just work at Lowe’s or Home Depot after the State Police.
Anything that blocks or obscures part of the windshield may be illegal, depending on your state law (which may exempt sun visors and specific small areas where inspection or other stickers or toll transponders are specified to be placed).
It’s the second amendment.
When people are using the right to assemble within the constitution as a means to support protestors during a pandemic. And the founders and their words as sacrosanct during impeachment. I agree with both views as well.