Another "Where have we gone wrong?" thread

Parent Cafe
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<p>Do any of you moms who stopped working to raise your kids regret it? What do your daughters think of your choice?</p>

<p>I’ve been home for 20 years now, volunteering in many ways-PTA president, Girl Scout leader, classroom aid, art center volunteer, etc. I’ve loved being home with my kids while they were growing up and have felt fortunate to be able to do so with minimal sacrifice. In fact, in our situation I know that my husband has been more successful in his career because I’ve been able to take care of things at home. It has been a division of labor and partnership that has worked for us, although I also know many women who chose to maintain their careers, and that has worked well for their families. I’m old enough now that the battle of working vs. non working moms seems sort of passe- my friends and I feel it’s basically a non- issue. We all do what works for us and our families. </p>

<p>I just had a conversation with my 23 year old that shocked me. She basically told me that because I didn’t “work,” I was not doing my share in her eyes. She said that her dad has to work everyday, and all I have to do is stay home and do whatever I want, and it’s not fair. I believe she meant it.</p>

<p>This is pretty much out of the blue. I’m eager to talk to her this weekend to see if there is something going on here besides what it seems like- she has NO CLUE what I have been doing all these years! :frowning: Now that her brother is in college, I wondered if getting a job would be the best thing for the family, but H and I feel that my presence at home is worth more than whatever I could bring in financially, as his income puts us well above the middle class. We really like the freedom and lack of stress that we felt back when we were both working. ( I taught school for many years before kids were born.) </p>

<p>H and I have been happily married for 36 years. For the first
seven, I worked and put him through college and graduate school. For a while after that, we both worked full-time and never saw each other, which is when I think our marriage was the most vulnerable. I taught school up until I had my beautiful now 23 year old, and later my son. I never thought I would have to justify our choices- and they are OUR choices, not my choice alone, to my daughter. </p>

<p>Have any of you gone through something like this-either moms who stayed home, or moms who worked and then had to justify “not being there?” I would guess it’s happened to those who have chosen both paths. I’d love to hear some input, and maybe some suggestions as to how I could explain to my daughter my belief that marriage is about partnership and how every one’s choices are based on what they believe is in the best interest of the family as a whole. All this time, I thought it was obvious. I never sensed her lack of respect, until now.</p>

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<p>If your daughter was mine I’d probably just laugh in her face. During the glorious few years when WashMom stayed home with our young children (quite happily), everything in our family worked better. Ask your daughter to ask her friends with dual-career parents how they liked day care when they were little, and not seeing their parents until 7pm when they were in high school. Better yet, record your entire conversation and play it back to her when she’s 40.</p>

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<p>Cronie, I feel your pain! Though my kids are not as old as yours I have stayed home with them their entire lives and am only now considering going back to the workforce to help pay future college bills. I expect that although your daughter does not appear to recognize the value of your being at home with her and her brother for all those years, she will come to realize that you made a great sacrifice by putting their needs and well-being first. Your volunteer work and constant attention no doubt helped to shape them into the adults that they now are…is your daughter unhappy with who she has become? </p>

<p>No worry, in a few years when she becomes a mom she will recognize what a huge job it is staying at home to raise a family and maintain a home. I would encourage you to have your husband tell her how much it meant to HIM to have you at home caring fro your kids all those years rather than putting you into daycare and afterschool care programs. She can make different choices with her kids when the time comes…tell her it’s nice that women have those choices to make in today’s world…and that you are happy with the choice that YOU made. Good luck!</p>

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<p>Wow, just wow! I’ve worked all my life, and my kids enjoyed being in daycare just fine; but each family’s situation and resources are different. For example, my H had to be very careful with the jobs he chose–little or no traveling, because he was the one who had to pick up the kids, take them to medical appointments, etc… Stay-at home moms don’t actually stay at home. They’re managers, cleaners, cooks, chauffeurs, appointment secretaries, and perform a whole host of other jobs besides. Did you drive your D to her activities? did you take her to the doctor? Did you go to teachers’ conferences? And so on and so forth. I’ll bet she’s just forgotten all the things you did. Get your H to tell her (off), too.</p>

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<p>I stayed home full time until youngest was in preschool. Then I worked very, very part time until youngest graduated high school. I then tried full time and didn’t like it very much. I still had lots to do. Now I work occasionally and have a part time job that I do from home.</p>

<p>All three of mine have repeatedly expressed appreciation for the choice I made. They have pointed out other kids who were not as fortunate. Who knows, maybe they are just saying it because they want me to feel good about the choice, but I don’t care. I know it was the right choice for us and I’m thrilled to have been able to make it.</p>

<p>My son getting married in September to someone whose mother always worked full time. She has told us that her dream would be to be a stay at home mom. So I’m happy.</p>

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<p>I’m so happy the first response to this thread was from a guy!</p>

<p>Cronie, you said some very valuable things in your post. You said it was your choice. You said your family worked better this way. You even said you didn’t think you would have to justify your choice, which you don’t.</p>

<p>I’ve stayed home as well. I’ve been in position a few times to make money from home (freelance writing, teaching piano, in-home childcare). The important thing was that it was both my choice and my husband’s. I don’t think it would have worked as well had it been only his, or only mine. It was important that we be together in it.</p>

<p>My kids have not yet questioned my choice. They seem to appreciate that I’ve always been available to them, and am still. I won’t be surprised if my kids choose the same way; but it’s also possible they’ll go the opposite direction. What I think is wonderful about Women’s Lib is that we have a choice. Sometimes people interpret it to mean all women have to work outside jobs. Where is the choice in that?</p>

<p>We had a young couple over for dinner on Monday. The wife is due any day with her first, and has made the choice to stay home. The husband threw it up in her face several times over the course of the evening. I don’t think he disagrees with her choice, but he sure intends to get mileage from it. My H, D, and I all found it very sad and scary. </p>

<p>It would be great if you could talk to your daughter. I would be interested in knowing why she thought what you did was somehow “wrong.” Perhaps she is afraid you won’t support her if she chooses something different. I hope you won’t go into it defensive; remember, you don’t have to justify yourself. </p>

<p>Just remember, you may not change her mind. I knew it all when I was her age, too.</p>

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<p>cronie, it must have broken your heart. I think your daughter forgot about the benefit of having mom available to herself while she was growing up. Now she doesn’t need her mom’s touch per se, she thinks it will be better for you to work.</p>

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<p>I left my full-time job when I was pregnant with my first child and then did freelance work (I’m a science writer and editor) for more than 20 years. Sometimes, I worked the equivalent of full-time hours as a freelancer; other times, I worked much less. It depended on the extent of my family responsibilities and on the amount of work that was available.</p>

<p>I only took a full-time job again a few months ago, at which time both of my kids were in college. </p>

<p>I am not sorry about my choice; it provided me with maximum flexibility during the years when my kids were growing up, which is exactly what I wanted. I had no extended family around to help, my husband’s work was demanding and inflexible, and I didn’t want my kids’ needs to go unmet because I was working and there was nobody to take up the slack. And fortunately, my husband was making enough money that my lower income and lack of fringe benefits were not big issues.</p>

<p>However, there were disadvantages to my choice. As a freelancer, I earned considerably less than I could have in a full-time job, and I didn’t progress up a career ladder. I always earned much less than my husband did. I still earn much less, even though I’m now working full-time, because I’m not qualified for jobs that pay anywhere near what he earns. This has created a power imbalance in our marriage that is very obvious to our kids, especially our daughter. She has said that she will never allow herself to get into the same situation, even if it means never having children. The thought of being anything less than an equal partner in a marriage appalls her. Also, my husband is ashamed of me. His friends and colleagues all have wives with careers that are much more impressive than mine. I suspect that my daughter is ashamed of me as well. (My son, not so much. I’m not sure why.)</p>

<p>One irony here is that one of the reasons that I chose not to work full-time while my kids were growing up is that my mother always worked full-time when I was growing up, and I was very familiar with the disadvantages of that choice. I didn’t see the plus side of her choice as clearly. Now, a generation later, my daughter is very familiar with the disadvantages of the lifestyle I chose, but I don’t think she sees the plus side of what I did. So she will probably choose a lifestyle more like her grandmother’s. If she then has a daughter, will that young woman choose a life more like mine?</p>

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<p>I think that the “job” entails both earning a living, running a household and parenting. How it is divided up depends on husband and wife, on the resources available (both in terms of skills and external factors such as availability of paid work), family needs, interests, etc… I don’t think there is a scenario that works for every family and I don’t think anyone should apologize for the choice s/he makes.
I think the OP’s D may well sing a different tune when she actually confronts the reality of family life. In the meantime, I’d tell her she has a lot of growing up to do if she can be so discourteous to her mother.</p>

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<p>I’ve always worked full-time. That was a reaction to two things: (1) My mother never worked, had no purpose in life, and was very depressed. And I vowed to never be like my mother. (2) When I had my first child in 1984, that was the “cool” thing to do.</p>

<p>Now? I wish I had done things somewhat differently, although I’m not sure how. I’m very successful, but as a result my DH thinks he has the right to work at “casual” jobs in an effort to “find himself.” I think I’ve “enabled” him to not work. That’s not a good result. Believe me, I had no idea that would be an unintended consequence.</p>

<p>My kids are very proud of me, though. They know how hard I work, that I’m a serious, smart person, and that I know how to manage in the business world. My S1 asks for advice about cover letters for job apps, how to follow up after an interview, and so forth. I feel good that I’m able to help.</p>

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<p>This seems to be the common thread to this thread, both among the middle-aged moms posting here and among our daughters. So many of us, in both generations, have made/want to make choices different from those of our mothers.</p>

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<p>Op, that must have felt like a slap in the face. I agree there might be something else completely, behind her thoughtlessness. I would tell her that you are sorry she feels that nurturing a family, ensuring they are happy, fulfilled and active at school and after school, as well as providing a safe, comfortable and clean home is not doing anything. But that it was your husband’s and your choice that it be done this way for the benefit of your family and you do not regret it for a moment. And, how dare she!</p>

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<p>Good idea, WashDad!</p>

<p>I, too, stayed home with kids (Oldest headed off to college in fall-yikes!).
Again, it’s decision mutually made with a hubby who travels extensively and it’s what worked for us–we placed value on having a parent available, especially when one parent could be on another continent. H could have never risen in his demanding job without my managing homefront…and I know he appreciated my efforts. The joke was that I worked, just not for a paying job. And I believe my kids appreciated having me available–I pointed out often that their many EC’s would not have been possible if I worked for a “paying” job. Did I ever wonder how far I could have gone in my pre-kid career? Sure. Was it always rosy staying home? Of course not, but it’s what worked best for our family’s situation. </p>

<p>Marian: Sorry about the appalling attitude of your H & D.</p>

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<p>I didn’t read all the posts, but I just put it in the catagory of things kids say because they don.t understand…yet. My D, 18 likes to end difficult conversations with “you’r never there!”…I’ve worked full time, and now work part-time, and for many years, I think I’v been “there” more than SHE is! I just hope she will have a choice when it’s her turn.</p>

<p>Edit; Now I’ve read all the posts. Science writer and editor! That is my dream career…I hope to live it vicariously through my D. I DO appreciate the “power” part, but feel it is mostly my own paranoia in my case. I USED to make more money then my H; now that I don’t ( and I still make plenty) I am more likely to “give in” about things realted to money. ( He wants to spend’ I don’t!) I would like to be MORE like my mother, who somehow seemd to wok full time, go to school, be “there” in ways that were important to me, and still instill me with the ambition to be “like her”. A mom who worked full time was not at all unusual where I grew up ( a father working full time was!).</p>

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<p>Ouch! That would hurt my feelings, even realizing she doesn’t have a clue. :)</p>

<p>I believe it’s human nature for a woman – or a lot of women – to “reject” her mother’s way of doing things. It’s part of our separation thing. My mom was a SAHM for my much-older brother and sister. She started working part time when I was in first grade (and my siblings were in junior high), while my dad was in Vietnam. I didn’t notice a difference until second grade, when she started working more and more hours. Then it was take-out dinner for us. Me and Col. Sanders were best buds! I didn’t mind that aspect, but I did start to really feel lonely during the summers, when I was left to fend for myself against my bossy big sister. And even later, when I was in middle school and could stay by myself (older sister was married and gone), I felt very lonely. It was in eighth grade when I started drinking.</p>

<p>So, not surprisingly, when it came time to raise my own kids, I choose to drop out of the work force when my older son was toward the end of fifth grade. We made a decision that we wanted to have me home when the kids were older and could get in trouble. We have made many sacrifices to do this. I was the primary breadwinner, putting my dh through college early on in the marriage when our first was an infant. When I quit, we lost more than half the family income, but we’re surviving.</p>

<p>One thing I was shocked to find out a couple of years ago is how little my kids remember about what life was like when I was working. I took my older son back to my old place of employment to show him around and meet some of my friends. He’d ask me questions like, “What would you do when I was sick?” and I told him how I’d work 16 hours one day so I could miss work the next day and be home with him, and he asked, “So you snuck back out after we were in bed?” He didn’t at all recall that I never had dinner on the table, I didn’t tuck him into bed that night, etc. He doesn’t recall the incredible amount of stress I was under in that position. Thank goodness!</p>

<p>I think my boys are pretty aware of the trade-offs we’re making. We can’t afford vacations or new cars or dinners out. But I have a wonderful dh who supports me – figuratively always and financially now – and would never let the boys think poorly of me for our decisions. Marian, your comment that your dh is ashamed of you really saddens me.</p>

<p>I agree with pp who said you can’t be defensive about it. You and your dh had your reasons for making that choice. She may not understand them now, but she will and, hopefully, by then, she’ll be able to respect them, too.</p>

<p>Oh, and as a postscript, my mom told me not too many years ago how she felt guilty sometimes about working. She felt bad that she sent my brother and sister off to school with a hot meal every morning, and by the time I was where they were it was cold cereal for me. I didn’t notice a difference at all and was surprised to learn my mother felt bad about that. I assured her that I feel like I’ve turned out more self-sufficient, thanks in part to her not being there constantly doing things for me.</p>

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I admire my mom and hope I’ll be able to find the balance she did. My mother loves her work (not her employer, granted, but her field) and would have been intensely unhappy as a stay-at-home parent. I am absolutely convinced that she was a better mother for working, not a worse one.</p>

<p>I went to daycare in my apartment building (a co-op of sorts organized by the parents who lived there) as a young child; I have vague but happy memories of it. After that I had live-in Swedish au pairs until I was almost nine, but I have many more memories of family outings and vacations – biking in the woods on weekends, summers on the Swedish coast where my family is from, Disneyland Paris when we lived in Brussels, going skiing in the winter, two- or three-week roadtrips across the United States when we lived in D.C. – than I have memories of my au pairs, not that they weren’t very nice. </p>

<p>We always sat down together as a family for dinner, for breakfast when we could manage it, and for lunch on weekends and vacations. The nights my sister had gymnastics practice or I was out volunteering (or whatever) we’d just wait for everyone to get home, even if that meant eating very late. </p>

<p>Even though both my parents have always worked full time (though they each took six months’ parental leave after my sister and I were born, as is the custom in Sweden) I’ve never felt neglected or in any way worse off for it. On the contrary, being a two-income household was what made possible things like the family vacations that are some of my most cherished childhood memories.</p>

<p>The fact that both my parents worked also meant that they gave me an incredible model of how an egalitarian marriage works in practice. My mom may have done most of the cooking (though not all!), but my dad did all the laundry and ironing; mom vacuumed, but dad mowed the lawn; dad drove my sister and me to school and assorted activities because he had the more flexible schedule, and so on. I didn’t get the memo that women were “supposed” to be responsible for childcare and housework until much later, and I always felt resentful that it might someday be expected of me.</p>

<p>When/if I get married, I’ll be looking for a similarly equitable division – because I am my mother’s daughter, and I can’t imagine not working outside the home or sharing household chores. I’d never judge anyone else’s choices, but that was hers, and I always admired her for it.</p>

<p>That’s what this daycare kid says, anyway.</p>

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<p>I’m sorry that was so long and maybe too strident. I want to emphasize again that I am not judging anyone who chooses differently, but the comment about kids with dual-career parents and daycare having a lesser childhood (or something) hit too close to home. </p>

<p>… and in retrospect, I really think mine were pretty extraordinary parents, and I would hope to be half as good as them at it someday. I still can’t fathom how we managed to have a home-cooked family dinner every night (to catch up with each other after spending the day apart, we used go around the table and say what our favorite thing was that happened that day, which I always thought was a sweet tradition :)), but somehow we did. I think it’s a strawman that dual careers mean family somehow isn’t a priority, because for us it very clearly always was.</p>

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<p>^^ Sweeeet! Have you thought of living in Sweeden? I 've always wondered if there seems a downside to that system.</p>

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<p>I’ve always worked and my kids tell me that they feel that I wasn’t really a part of their lives and they wouldnt choose to work full time the time their kids are very young. So you can’t really win with people who haven’t had to choose yet.</p>

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<p>camelia, I think you’re right. It can work beautifully. In fact, dh and I were always complimented on how well our family functioned. And it did. But eventually, we wanted a change, so change we did. And that’s working out fine, too. Though I miss the moolah!</p>