<p>So why do you try to provoke him. You are acting no better than him, but what some guy does on a street corner has no connection to Haggard. You have no idea how religious or non religious he really is. He is just that, a guy yelling at a street corner. </p>
<p>Also I dont understand what this even means “it was this holier than though, jsut pray, just go to church, and you too will be saved garbage, and look, all you sinners out in the world, blah blah blah” Thats simply what this gay believed in. And you know what, he was just trying to save himself, by praying, by going to church, and he was not able to overcome what he wanted to and I feel sorry for him, as should you. There is no reason for you to be so happy about this man’s downfall. He did so many great things. The lives he saved, the families that he helped. He did alot of great things, and now he will continue to go to church and continue to pray for himself, for the strength to beat homosexual urges and drug addiction. To me it seems that you have the “holier than though” attitude. You mock the religious, who stand at street corners yelling at people, but you never look at what religion has done, the great things it has accomplished. You never have looked at the real face of religion, which in a way is this Haggard guy. Religion is his way of overcomign his problems, its an absolute guiding force for him. It tells him his limits. He knows what he did was wrong BECAUSE of his religion. A guy at the street corner does not represent religion.</p>
Sorry, but I seriously disagree. I think even mini would argue that he never misses an opportunity to demean Catholicism. I have read many comments of his that are negative about Christianity, and I would be surprised if he agreed with your description.</p>
<p>You say that he saved souls through his religion or belief. Yet he also Stole souls in his falsehoods. That is his real transgression. It is fortunate that his congregation may be strong enough to realize that his leadership is human, some may however find that he is the Devil, himself. </p>
<p>I agree with you completely. He did lie. He cheated on his wife. He had a homosexual affair. He did drugs. He did alot of wrong things. Just as that is true so is the fact that he did help people and save lives. That cant be denied. Its a shame this man lost to his temptations.</p>
<p>Perhaps “lie” is too harsh of a term. Evil does not need to lie, Evil merely gives a representation of what others want to believe. That is deception. </p>
<p>As I said before, some may see the guy as the Devil, and the Devil saved souls.</p>
<p>I think mini believes himself to be a “true Christian” of the first three centuries variety, when in his view it was authentic, pure, and pristine. He despises the hierarchal and doctrinal concepts imposed with Constantine, though, which he probably thinks was the beginning of the “institutional” Church.</p>
<p>That is why he is always trying to point out here the follies of Christianity since that time, especially in the Catholic Church. The way he goes about it doesn’t srike me as very “Christian” much of the time however. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>"Christianity is so much more embracing than it’s portrayed by its most vocal “supporters”</p>
<p>EMBRACING??? Embracing of what?</p>
<p>I’ve been called ‘satanic’ by various ‘Christians’ at various times for one or more of the following ‘sins’: being a vegetarian, using herbs, practicing yoga, reading other spiritual books besides the bible, wearing crystal jewelry…and even, I kid you not, for having a picture of a whimsical UNICORN in my house! (It had butterflies too, but the ‘Christian’ didn’t seem to mind those, for some reason.)</p>
<p>My son was labeled ‘satanic’ by a different group of ‘Christians’ because he had long hair and wore black rock t-shirts (they weren’t even vulgar - just not ‘Christian.’)</p>
<p>Fundamentalist born-again ‘Christianity’ teaches that anyone who does not believe precisely as they believe is going to burn in ‘hell’ forEVER. </p>
<p>Fundamentalist born-again ‘Christianity’ judges others and seeks to deny rights to those who they deem ‘unacceptable’ even though the lifestyles of those people have no effect on the ‘Christians.’</p>
<p>Fundamentalist born-again ‘Christianity’ has little resemblance to the teachings of the great Master, Jesus. It seems to be based more on the old testament, because it focuses on the belief that God is a wrathful, vengeful, merciless, war-mongering being who doesn’t mind that 80% of his creation will supposedly suffer forEVER in the ‘fires of hell.’</p>
<p>So, I ask you: just what is ‘Christianity’ so embracing of?</p>
<p>I am not a Christian, but I will not be harsh on the religion itself. Many of the beliefs and actions of ‘Christians’ are truly worthy of praise. The concepts of compassion and helping the fellow men are two of the gems of Christianity that many other religions are lacking. I have found mainstream christians to be really understanding and non judgemental. I find many of the quotations in The Bible to be very inspiring.</p>
<p>Howver, I do agree with you about the born-again evangelicals though. I will be rotting in hell anyway. (and if there really is a heaven, I don’t want to be stuck with them for eternity) I have nothing but contempt for them.</p>
LOL simba! I myself hope to make it through the pearly gates, but I imagine, at the very least, I’ll hear a strong lecture before I’m allowed to enter.</p>
<p>At least you’re not expecting to encounter 70 virgins in the afterlife.</p>
<p>Lealdragon–exactly–those people you are citing have certainly twisted Chrsitianity into something that was not what it originally was. My biggest beef with “fundamentalist” Christians is that many have presented a picture of the faith to the world that is not what it is to many of us, and certainly, to my mind, not what is present in the Gospels. The fact that you see all Christianity that way is a testament to the successful pubic relations efforts of one offshoot which often seems to represent their own bigotry, not the real foundations of the faith. I am heartily sorry your son has had to suffer from that kind of prejudice.</p>
<p>“Christian” what is very “christian” please enlighten me…are Christians to never discuss their church, or the church leaders? </p>
<p>a church is led by humans, and as such, should always be looked at…it would not be smart to just be led around without any scutinty of who the leaders are, religious or not</p>
<p>don’t worry about not getting in “heaven”…according to some MLK won’t be there, neither will Mother Theresa, or Ghandi, nor Elvis…so who would be left?</p>
<p>In this context by Christian I meant “tolerant” – even of those people who represent the “ick factor” to so many on this board.</p>
<p>cgm: Since you’re Catholic, I’d recommend you read the Catechism, since you’re not fond of the Bible particularly. You may be surprised exactly who Catholics believe can end up in heaven (non-Catholics, non-Christians, non-religious, and non-believers, for starters).</p>
<p>Like Garland, I am going to go out on a limb here in as much as I will say that I disagree with her about comrade mini’s Christian bona fides; however, I must confess that I was inspired by her genius in nominating mini as Jesus’ #1 guy. </p>
<p>So, given her criterion in making the selection–to the degree that I’ve divined it–I will nominate “lealdragon” and “Simba” as the “truest Christians on this board” and Jesus’ #1 ladies, as they seem to direct even more vitriolic anger at Christians than mini does (though mini may be more left wing…tough call).</p>
<p>I know, it’s an odd choice; but it is completely in keeping with the criterion Garland fiendishly employed. </p>
<p>Sadly, many Christians, perhaps not unlike Garland, believe that to be “good” (as one soul defines the virtue) is to be a Christian. They’ve rather had it with the whole tradition of those who died before them as devoted Christians (mostly ignorant Luddites prone to oppressing “the other” in society, amongst other crimes against humanity they must pay for) and are therefore given to advocate wish-washy user-friendly labels like “spiritual” (postmodern quotes) in place of the more direct “religious” in an effort to distance their enlightened selves and their singular genius (having reinvented Christian spirituality in their own image–with the added help of mass media religious sophisticates like the New York Times op ed and some handsome Hollywood hand-wringer of their choosing).</p>
<p>By such a definition–if I were way-left–I would be compelled to say that The TRUEST CHRISTIANS IN THIS THEAD ARE:
[drum roll….]</p>
<ol>
<li> **Lealdragon</li>
<li> Simba</li>
<li> Mini</li>
<li> Che Guevara<a href=“wherever%20you%20are,%20Senior%20Che”>/b</a></li>
<li> …there is no fifth (sorry Garland, you have not got under the low-bar set for condemning Christians).</li>
</ol>
<p>Rumor has it that HH, Sjmom and Stickershock, laughably, also claim to be Christians…Puhleez!
See list above you posers^^^^</p>