<p>S3, a freshman, is not making it at Dayton because he’s majoring in his social life and partying skills He’s been warned all semester that he’ll be working and living in his own apartment if he didn’t cut the mustard, so this isn’t unexpected news to him but I think it will still be startling and unsettling. The kid really loves Dayton, but as we pointed out to him last week, it’s possible he loves college but doesn’t like school. He often accuses us of not listening to him, so we said, “We hear you now. You’ve been making a decision, albeit in a stumbling way, every time you didn’t go to class or didn’t study. And we respect your decision.”</p>
<p>We strongly believe that he needs to spend next semester working and trying to support himself so that he will have an immediate comparison between the work of college (going to class, studying) and the work of Life (working two drudge jobs to pay <em>all</em> his bills). He’s hell bent on being treated like an adult, so we’re going to accommodate his request.</p>
<p>It seems most if not all of the anecdotes on that CC thread indicate the kids who partied and blew off class first semester screwed up just as much second semester, and at this point we have no reason to believe he’d be making any real changes in his choices/time management/behavior. But if it does happen somewhat frequently … ever … I’d be interested in hearing about it. HE professes next semester would be different.</p>
<p>My niece wasn’t failing her first semester (large state university in engineering) but she barely had over a 2.0 (A student in high school). Her parents were furious. It was a combination of adjusting the the rigors of college academics, her social life and time management- not to mention the “weeder” courses. She DID pull it together 2nd semester and did well after that. I think it depends on the kid’s motivation and interest in getting back on track.</p>
<p>I’m inclined to believe that the ‘reason’ colleges offer probation for students for a semester is because some of them do get back on track.</p>
<p>That said, you know your own kid best, and you know what kind of consequences “get through” to him better than anyone else does. I’d just go with your instincts.</p>
<p>Maybe he is just scared enough to turn it around next semester. I know that many kids really do not live up to thier potential in thier first semester… I have heard many stories from friends whose kids did turn it around the second semester. Maybe you should give him a GPA goal and see how he does after the second semester. Also, his school probably has a GPA requirement to stay there…I would use this as a guideline.</p>
<p>This is tough, We would be inclined to agree with your initial plan. Our son knew from the start that if he wasn’t in school, he would be paying rent either here or in his own place. He was a very “nonchalant” student in high school but managed to do ok (no honors or AP classes though). He started at community college which I know is sacrilege to many people here. It did serve to give him a bridge though to the college lifestyle. We really believed that he needed more time to mature even though we had no concerns about partying (straight edge). It worked for him, maybe a compromise such as community while living at home would at least keep your son in the game. Our son did pay his own tuition the first 2 years with money we had made save while he worked in HS. I think that may have helped too as it was HIS money, not ours. We picked up the tab once he transferred in his junior year to a 4 year university.</p>
<p>I know one kid who finished his first quarter at Stanford with GPA bellow 2.0. I don’t think it was so much due to partying (I don’t believe he is a drinker, etc.), but social life was certainly a priority for him. He also was trying to do the premed track at that time, and his time management skills I guess were sub-par as well. He dropped the one class he was actually failing, and ended up with fewer credits and a W. After that, he switched to history major (which was a much better fit for him), dropped his premed aspirations, got his act together, and ended up graduating with honors 4 years later. One more thing that worked in his favor was that Stanford is on a quarter system, so blowing one quarter does not damage the overall GPA as much as one semester…</p>
<p>My oldest had trouble in his first semester due to a religion class. He attends a Catholic university and had to take 3 theology classes in order to graduate. Anyhow, my son did not like the rigidity of the professor and refused to buy in to what was being taught. Being the headstrong freshman that he was, he didn’t want to play the game. His final paper was on atheism - ugh. She failed him and that F left him with a 1.98. Honestly in addition to this “wonderful” grade, I dont’ think he was giving his all the first semester. They put him on academic probation. I discussed the importance of playing the game when encountering certain types of professors and told him that these types of grades were not acceptable. Make no mistake; I was not happy about all of this. Anyhow, the university provided excellent academic counseling to help get him on track. They helped him with his study skills and time management. It ended up being a blessing in disguise. He got a 3.2 the next semester and is graduating next week. So yes, a freshman who fails the first semester can turn it around. :-)</p>
<p>I’ve seen kids turn it around (work in the academic support office at an LAC) in every situation described so far (wrong major, different classes, etc.) but the kids have to be internally motivated and willing to make a change. And truly willing and knowing what to say at an appeal of probation are two different things. </p>
<p>I think the dose of reality you’ve got planned for your son can be a great motivator, although it may not work right away. He’s still a teen and will play some teen cards (you don’t care, you don’t support me, not MY fault). Brace yourself.</p>
<p>Maybe Dayton needs to take some of the blame here!</p>
<p>The factors that made me decide to bring her home included:</p>
<p>A GPA too low to salvage
Texting at all hours of the night
Spending all the money in her checking account
Dayton’s willingness to overlook drinking/huge parties on their property during freshman orientation</p>
<p>I, too, say go with your instincts. Is this an A-student who knows how to work/study/succeed but just got distracted? Or is this a so-so student who looked for excuses not to work in HS? How much hands-on guidance did you have to give him in HS and in applying to college? That will go far in determining whether he means what he says about things changing next semester. </p>
<p>We all know kids listed to others a lot more clearly than they do parents in this kind of situation. It’s his problem. He needs to find the solution. Hopefully, there’s a sibling/relative/advisor/counseling center that will tell him what’s what, and he will listen. </p>
<p>I think your attitude is right. He wants to be treated like an adult, but he needs to show he can act like one. I would ask him to set some guideposts–GPA (using school’s requirement + 1 for the semester), # hours studying per week, places to study, mid-term grades, etc. The college will have a min. requirement for semester GPA he needs to meet, but he also needs to realize how hard he will have to work to to bring his overall GPA up after that semester. </p>
<p>Can he salvage anything at this point? If there’s one or two classes where he has a chance of bringing up his grade with a good final/final paper, he should concentrate on that/those. </p>
<p>A male relative of mine did pretty much the same thing. He ended up getting such bad grades at the end of his first year that he was kicked out of his particular school within the university, and had to take classes at the general studies school and then re-apply to his particular school again. This delayed his graduation by a year. </p>
<p>His parents were pretty ****ed. They threatened to make him join the army, they threatened to make him leave school and move home to work. I think what motivated him in the end is that he really didn’t want to move home feeling like a failure, and have to deal with the anger of his parents and his own personal frustrations. </p>
<p>I think that it was a good decision that they let him return to school and figure things out. The probation was a wake up call that he needed to get it together or he would be coming home. I think if they had yanked him and made him come home and get a job then 1) everyone would have been miserable. He would have blamed his parents for not giving him a chance and probably spent a good long while hating them. They would be angry at him over his behavior, felt disappointed in themselves, many fights and bad feelings would ensue; 2) he probably would have become discouraged and never gone back to college; 3) he would have fallen in with a bad crowd, hanging out with all the kids from high school who never left home because of their poor choices (whether not applying themselves in school, drinking, drugs, etc). He would not have been in an environment conducive to his returning to school. </p>
<p>I think that if the school lets him come back on probation, you should give him the semester of probation to get back on track. Be clear with him that you need to see improvement or he will be coming home. Insist that he get a campus job so that he doesn’t have as much free time to party. Over vacation, sit down and work out a plan with him about how to accomplish his academic goals. Will he meet regularly with advisor? go to office hours? can you get him a big calendar to keep track of assignments? Can he pick a few nights every week that are exclusive study nights, no matter what? Chances are, he does not want to fail any more than you want him too, he has just spent the past few months engaging in some typical kid magical thinking about the relationship between grades and effort. </p>
<p>A lot of kids go crazy with the freedom of college at first. They often settle down into a more manageable pattern second semester.</p>
<p>This kid did pretty well in high school with a little slip of senioritis his last semester. He earned a $10K schollie at Dayton. At work he’s very good - he has two jobs and both his bosses talk about how hard he works there, so it’s not laziness. He worked an 8-10 hour job on campus, but unfortunately I think he just got more money for beer or whatever else. I hate that he’s been lying to us, but that’s been his m.o. all along - lie until you’re caught, then quickly admit. Wild. He just seems out of control right now in some ways. Our gut is to not let him go back. I just don’t trust it. </p>
<p>This kid was kind of a handful in high school - not by a lot of other parents’ standards, but he broke OUR rules and we followed through just as threatened every time we caught him. So he knows we’re not just threatening, but by his behavior you’d think that’s what he believes!</p>
<p>He is hell bent on doing things his way, and yet … he’s a great kid - extremely social and likeable. Other adults are always enthusiastically telling me how much they like him. So he’s got a lot of potential if he puts his mind to it. He’s also kind of impulsive, but it hasn’t gotten in the way of his schoolwork in the past, just his decision making and wanting to fit in. He’s very motivated by his peers - one reason I’ve liked Dayton because for the most part those are really great kids there. But party they do.</p>
<p>I wish I knew what his bottom was with this. That’s why this decision is so hard - we’re either putting off the inevitable or allowing him to save his college career in the knick of time. He’s got loans so unless he defaults we’re not paying one penny for this past semester, and if he does default, that money will be the least of our worries because at that point our relationship would be crap. </p>
<p>I’m trying not to have any expectations or thoughts about his future either way right now, because I either calm myself or freak myself depending on which of his possible outcomes I’m flying with at the moment ;)</p>
<p>My daughter did minimally ok first semester and I wanted to have her come home after the first semester but we ended up having her stay one more semester. That was a big mistake for her because the behaviors that had caused her to not do well were already part of her college experience at that particular school including the people she chose to hang out with. She did come home after the first year and it was the best thing that could have happened. She commutes to school now and although she would rather be out on her own we would rather see our money for room and board not be put through the shedder again. If daughter wants to get her own place she can do so by working a couple full time jobs over the summer and save the money. Irresponsible behavior has consequences.</p>
<p>“at this point we have no reason to believe he’d be making any real changes in his choices/time management/behavior.”</p>
<p>This is why I wouldn’t give him a second chance at this point. If he’d put the brakes on the partying and knuckled down for finals the last month of the term, or something like that, I might be a little more flexible even if the finals weren’t enough to get his grades into the acceptable range. But where all you have is promises? Nah.</p>
<p>I suspect this young man does not really respect his parents (some – sorta – but not in an “OMG the fallout will be horrible if I fail” way). So the way to get respect is to draw a line in the sand and not back down from it. </p>
<p>What the line is will be up to you. It could be “We will pay for another semester if you attend every class all semester and we WILL be emailing professors to inquire if your body is present. If the prof does not care to report to us, then we WILL be dropping by Dayton unannounced to see if you are in class” – then do it. Wear your frumpiest “Mom” clothes and walk in early and announce loudly “I’m here because I needed to check on my student’s class attendance.” </p>
<p>For me, the deal is this : I don’t care if my kid is embarrassed. I don’t. If he is behaving, then I will behave. If he’s misbehaving, then the world will know it because I will tell all, loudly. </p>
<p>I suggest to you that your son needs to impress you at this point. Rather than you rushing in to problem solve, why not say "Well, I am very underwhelmed by what happened this semester. Convince me why I should pay one single dime more. " Then sit back and be silent. Don’t fill the air with your suggestions. Be quiet. If a few minutes pass and there is no response, get up and leave, saying “well, there’s no way I’m paying if you don’t have a solid plan. Let me know when you have one and we’ll talk.” Go for a walk or yank weeds in the yard. Let him find you. </p>
<p>Don’t take his first offer either. Let him “add on” promises until you are satisfied. </p>
<p>This is a man. It is time for him to act like one. Think of him as a man and not your little, hurt boy. Good luck!</p>
<p>We are in the same place.
Son was an A student – became ill last year (you can see my old threads) and barely got out of high school (but still earned 5s on several STEM APs). He’s at a top 10 institution in a STEM field. Started fall with a goal of a 4.0 with plans for a double major. We told him this was an unrealistic goal- but wished him well. School is really intense.</p>
<p>Well-- long story, he tells us now he thinks he will earn three Cs this semester and changed one 200 level weeder class (had AP credits for the 100 level class) to a W mid semester. (he is dropping the attempted second major anyways – so the W is fine as no more classes anticipated in Physics). I think he’s more disappointed than we are since he had such high expectations for himself. He says there is a risk that one of the Cs may even be a D and he would need to repeat a class that is a pre-req for the next required math class for his major. And there’s also one final was Aced - so that he may even have a B. Whatever- these are awful awful results.</p>
<p>We will be sitting down this weekend- and my H and I decided that the plan is he is coughing up $10k for Spring and signing a promissory note with us for the balance he cannot borrow through the government. The $10k will be through max of unsubsidized federal student loans, and some savings. We feel he can pay the semester or just not attend. I don’t think working and dropping out is the best solution (it’s hard to return to the school if you take a LOA this early) - but I do think the mom/dad welfare system should end. A dose of reality in the price of education is appropriate. I don’t want to pay for “grades” – he needs to motivate himself, so there’s not going to be any bargaining upfront-- he will pay and should he improve, then we will pay for next fall. If he’s still a C student, then he’s done at pricey -U and can go to our state school on his own dime.</p>
<p>I read the replies to this thread, and agree with some of the other posters sharing family history , it’s not that he’s partying-- but he is having a terrible time management problem and adjusting to the demands of a tough major in a very highly ranked competitive school. He resists the help at the school for time management and stress management. He’s already admitted he didn’t attend two classes b/c the instructors spoke with such a heavy accent he couldn’t understand. All of this means he needs to take self responsibility for changing his MOA and making plans to behave differently. That said, Cs across the board are very unacceptable and he’s now on probation with the organization that he earned an external scholarship from – a prestigious one none-the-less. As for summer job applications- a 2.0 has now made that fairly impossible. So I will encourage my son to return for Spring on his own dime and to work with the professionals at the institution to help him reach the potential that they saw in him and this is why he was one of the 11% accepted to his program of study from the applicant pool.</p>
<p>Olymom, we’re on the exact same page. My new line with S3 is “We love you, you’re a smart kid, you’ll figure it out.” But he’s not figuring it out at home - the last thing we need is the stress of dealing with his s**t every day. </p>
<p>And just for what it’s worth - we never wake our kids up in the morning, never ask what their assignments are, nothing. Grades have ranged from excellent to a 3.2 (four kids). First two kids graduated in four years, one from ND and the other from one of UC’s most strenuous programs (one more in high school but a 4.0 right now). So I don’t know what’s up with this one, but we’re sticking to our guns.</p>
<p>And we haven’t paid a dime yet. He’s got $15K in loans. We pointed out you could party for four months a lot cheaper than $15K, but hey, he knew that all along. </p>
<p>We’ve held everything over his head we could. If his grades would have been solid, we would have repaid his loan, fully. So we’re out. We do NOT want him to go back, and we probably could withhold the second part of his loan payment (DH cosigned). Now I’m just hoping he doesn’t become a derelict drug addict or something (worst case scenario I realize, but my fears are running wild). Growing up in a family of alcoholics you eventually turn the corner, even with your kid, and figure out what you can’t control and what you can. But reading these responses, I’m even more convinced he shouldn’t go back.</p>
<p>Every student is different. Every situation has its own details. What counts is that a parent should not “hope for the best” without some sort of verification process. </p>
<p>A student who is acting in a mature and responsible way (making most classes, making at least moderate grades) does not need the verification process that a student making poor choices is making. nngmm is right, it is no longer middle school – perhaps the college staff have some suggestions (move to quieter dorm. Take different style of class . … ). But new patterns are important. </p>
<p>Both of my guys work a lot harder for someone else than for me (although as the years go on, there is less territorial behavior and they are more and more cheerful helpers at home). I think there can be a lot of learning and growing done under another roof. </p>
<p>One friend packed up her teen male and drove him several states away to a cousin’s. She paid a month’s rent for a room in the house and told son “ok, have a great life!” She felt he would work hard to not be a “leech” on the cousin whereas he would not be so motivated if he was at home. So far that has worked well. The young man has worked a year and is enjoying his freedom and getting to know his cousin – alas, not everyone has a cousin who is ready and right for such hosting. </p>
<p>The challenge with returning to the same campus is that it will be easy to return to the same habits. Some framework would have to be in place to make sure that didn’t happen.</p>
<p>I don’t know-- I hear your anger in your posts much the same as i hear it in myself (anger, disgust and diappointment - but still love them- just so miffed that they can wreck such wonderful opportunities)…but when you say you’re convinced he shouldn’t go back- ultimately, this will be his decision as long as he pays right? We don’t make that choice for them.</p>
<p>That’s how we plan to start the conversation with our S-- “do you want to return” Ok-- well here’s how it works, you can return but you are paying for next semester. Or might you want to return and transfer to the less stressful safety school to which you were accepted?
If my S doesn’t want to return-- yeech, I don’t want him back home- not even if he’s working - what would motivate him not to free load.<br>
I’m thinking both your S and mine are perfectly happy socially=they made friends, it’s humiliating to return home and I don’t think they get back going anytime soon.</p>
He’s been warned all semester that he’ll be working and living in his own apartment if he didn’t cut the mustard, so this isn’t unexpected news to him but I think it will still be startling and unsettling. The kid really loves Dayton, but as we pointed out to him last week, it’s possible he loves college but doesn’t like school. He often accuses us of not listening to him, so we said, “We hear you now. You’ve been making a decision, albeit in a stumbling way, every time you didn’t go to class or didn’t study. And we respect your decision.”</p>