<p>I think you are overreacting. You said “I think he’s more disappointed than we are since he had such high expectations for himself.” He needs your support and your show of confidence in him and his abilities, I am sure he is seriously shaken by this situation. You can let him know that you will not be able to make up for the lost scholarship if that was to happen, and that you expect him to work in the summer and contribute to his college fund. But don’t add to his distress.
College math is a world apart from HS math - kids who were great at math at HS can find themselves totally lost in college math classes. MIT and Swarthmore, arguably the most academically intense schools in the country, make the first semester freshman year pass/fail in order to let the kids get their bearings and adjust to college level of work and expectations.</p>
<p>Late Bloomer. Sounds like my brother. Had a great time freshman year. Came home went to CC, worked a couple of jobs, got his act together, back to school closer to home. It just took time. Now he is a business owner, very successful. He said the best thing my parents did was to let him suffer the consequences of his actions. YMMV</p>
<p>With 4 kids, you have plenty of experience at knowing YOUR child - every one is different - trust your gut.</p>
<p>My S2 is the poster child for “worst first semester ever”.
At the end of his first sem. his gpa was .33 Yep, that’s right…2 D’s and 4 F’s.<br>
He was on Academic Probation.</p>
<p>He really wanted to go back and he really did not want to come back home to our town.
Just a month before leaving for college, his two best friends were killed in a car accident.
S2 was following them and saw the whole thing. </p>
<p>He really wanted to go on to college. We thought it the best thing for him too…to get away.
He was not a strong student in h.s. but we had decided to give him a chance.
Between adjustment to college and dealing with the loss of the friends, he just never got it all together. He did have friends at college and was enjoying the “college experience” but fell in a hole academically. He never let us know. Kept thinking he would get it together but it was too late.</p>
<p>We let him go back. We thought he deserved a second chance.
It was the best decision we could have made for him. He made a 2.5 in the Spring sem. (practically a miracle). He’s a junior now and has continued to raise his gpa bit by bit each semester.
So yes, a turnaround after a horrid semester is possible. S2 is living proof.
If all goes well he’ll grad. on time in May 2012…fingers crossed.</p>
<p>I finished my first semester at college (a T20 LAC) with a 1.4 (maybe 1.2). School immediately put me on academic probation, which was a wake-up call to me. It wasn’t so much the partying (which was fun), but my inability to work at a college level. Even though I had done fairly well in HS and had good SATs, college work just seemed to be beyond me. So many of my classmates had gone to prep schools and the workload didn’t effect them. It probably took me a full two years to really understand what was expected.</p>
<p>Fast forward eight years and I was graduating from a national law school cum laude.</p>
<p>It can be done, but it will probably depend on the reasons for the poor academic performance. If it’s purely partying, then I think your plan is as good as any, but if there are other factors (and your son will probably have to admit them to you) you may want to reconsider.</p>
<p>Sounds to me that the core issue is not just his academic troubles, but that the anguish has been compounded by a history of dishonesty and belligerence. If this was just about academics, I’d say maybe give it another shot with some added guidance and so forth. </p>
<p>However, the OP has described someone in whom their trust has been misplaced, their guidance rejected, and expectations ignored. What that means is that even if he managed to to go back next semester it would still be fraught with anxiety and the nagging doubt that always accompanies parent-child relationships that have been severely fractured. </p>
<p>Really, who needs it? The student has not demonstrated any realistic glimmer of benefiting from a second chance, and no good parent deserves to have to deal with the unnecessary grief. I say take him out. Try something different. Give him some time to mature. Reset your relationship. Try again later, if and when, prospects for success appear more favorable.</p>
<p>I will add that one of ours had a rough semester and was eventually diagnosed with sleep apnea – a condition that can worsen with use of alcohol. A student who is constantly sleepy (more than most college kids) and/or who snores should have a sleep evaluation.
A CPAP machine made a tremendous difference. </p>
<p>Another friend has been diagnosed with Adult ADD. The book “More Attention, Less Deficit” is pragmatic and helpful. It can also be helpful to switch to a different format of class (less note taking, more hands on or fewer essays, more demonstrations/speechs). </p>
<p>There can be underlying conditions that have been managed during teen high school years that erupt in college – particularly with erratic eating and sleeping patterns. </p>
<p>Both the sleep apnea and the ADD can be insidious. The student can feel guilty and overwhelmed when they really need some help to cope.</p>
<p>FLVADAD, I think you hit it on the head. If this had been one of the first two kids, I’d have a different answer to this problem. But this one has struggled with defiance for four years. It was interesting to us - the first two went through teen defiance in junior high - when it is MUCH easier to deal with, nip, and eradicate - and S3 did it in high school when the stakes are much higher and he was much more tenacious in it. We sincerely did the best we could with him then, other than military school - grounded regularly, phone/car taken away, etc. In fact, if I had a do-over, he would have been in military boarding school from the get-go, but I didn’t know freshman year that it would keep going as it did. </p>
<p>Things progressed negatively as high school went on but never became so bad that it was a crisis - just bad enough that we were always at odds with him. He’s kind of an enigma - very outgoing and friendly, the first one to go help someone with a chore, a 3.2 in a challenging high school and good AP scores, hard worker on his jobs, teachers and coaches love him. But to us: defiant, lies, will NOT be told what to do by his parents. Zero humility with us. He seems impulsive without the structure of school. Greatly influenced by his peers. </p>
<p>My hope is that now we are ending the fight (What’s to fight about? We accept you want to be an adult. Here you go!) and he will soon see the only one he’s fighting anymore is himself. I asked him a couple of weeks ago if part of this was rebelliousness towards us and him doing what we want him to do (college), and he said maybe. And I told him, well then, you’re winning the battles with us but you’re losing the war for yourself.</p>
<p>I’ve known a few young men like he OPs that were either friends of my oldest or children of our friends. They are reacing their mid to later twenties now and most ended up not attending college for a couple years after several semesters of angst/anger and substantial financial support but found their place on their own dimes and finished college. All were either good high school students and one was top of his class in a top university. If you can afford it you can try one more semester but be prepared to cut him loose and let him find his own path. Sometimes you have to let them go to let them fly when they are battling the family nest. He may not be loosing the battle with himself, he may just be struggling to find himself and he might only be able to do that on his own.</p>
<p>I have a friend who flunked out of Rutgers after graduating honors in high school. Another buddy of mines did poorly in high school but turned it around afterwards and managed to transfer into Chapel Hill, doing pretty good there.</p>
<p>One of my kids did not do well first semester as a freshman. I said pretty much the same thing as OP - either shape up or you’re done at that school. We gave options of a cheaper state school, and required kid to do the applications. I wasn’t going to pay for college if kid couldn’t do college level work. Kid turned it around, did transfer (GPA from that school didn’t transfer, so kid had an opportunity to start fresh with lessons-learned at school #2). Bottom line is that this kid ultimately graduated with honors and is now in grad school, which is a happy ending considering where beer pong led him as a freshman.</p>
<p>Another story – spouse had a kid who wasn’t doing well in school after three years. It wouldn’t have gone on that long if we had gotten the grades, but we relied upon the ex and the kid’s reports that everything was fine. After 3 years, kid had two years of credits and a 2.0. School basically shrugged when asked about its own published probation policy (it was a small LAC and I think they needed the warm bodies). We told this kid to take out a loan. If the kid did better than a 2.8 taking at least 15 credits, we’d repay the loan. If the kid’s work continued to be inadequate, the kid would be responsible for the loan payments. Kid dropped out. Kid has done well in various jobs, but just wasn’t interested in doing college work.</p>
<p>Well
Our Son pulled two Ds and a C, and one A (in a humanities elective). We will soon receive notification that he has been placed on academic probation and he is has told us he needs to repeat a pre-req for upper level classes in his intended major (which he insists he is sticking to at this point).<br>
He doesn’t want to discuss anything-- and has heard us say that our financial support will not be continued for spring. He plans to return, borrow a substantial amount of money and said “don’t worry-- I’ll figure it out - it’s not your problem and I don’t want your help-- leave me alone”.</p>
<p>He is home for for a few weeks and then returns. I have held my tongue-- and know it would be worse to throw him out now-- he can eat what’s in our fridge for three weeks and then get on the airplane back to school on the ticket we’ve paid for in advance.</p>
<p>By college guidelines, he’ll be suspended if he pulls another semester like this. My expectations are very low.</p>
<p>Someone said I should support my S and show him I trust his abilities.
But I don’t. That doesn’t mean I don’t love him-- I’m sad for his loss at opportunity at one of the finest schools in the US, but also angry for being betrayed-- he said things were going ok - just not wonderful when asked mid semester. Ds were never even an option–he should have gotten help. You cannot do that poorly and expect to dig out of your hole without academic and/or emotional support-- which my S says he doesn’t need. Hence, I don’t see how I can support (emotionally or financially) him since he appears to be giving up or not as mature or serious as he needs to be in this situation. While I wish things were different- reality, I cannot justify throwing another pile of money his way to support a free-loading slacker–that is a mean thing to say about one’s son and it’s out of character for me to speak that way about anyone, let alone my son-- but I am so upset right now. That’s harsh, it’s cold, but what else do I do? College should not be a parentally paid welfare system- as that is a disincentive for the student to improve.</p>
<p>Any suggestions, consolation, inputs all welcome here and by PM.
And to the OP-- I apologize-- I hijacked your thread. Please forgive me.</p>
<p>Maybe he’ll surprise you and do really well.</p>
<p>Try to see him as a person and not a student and enjoy the time you have with him. I had a friend whose kid wasn’t doing well in school and she let it color her last visit with her to the point where it was miserable. She never saw her alive again.</p>
<p>If she could go back and do it, again, she really wouldn’t be all that focused on grades.</p>
<p>Good luck. I hope your son pulls it together. Either way it works out, though, he’ll still be your adult son who you love. Happy holidays.</p>
<p>These threads just break my heart because most of these kids did well in high school and the expectations are that they will do well in college. But the reality is many have to do it on a non-linear path. Take heart and cut them loose if that is what it takes…they aren’t children anymore. My oldest has one more semester before finishing his undergrad and his best friend just turned 22 and started college after four years of drifting around. The friend is doing great, has purpose in life and I have no doubt he will finish. We’re so proud of him. No one says that college has to occur in the four years in a row after high school …it has to occur when their hearts and their brains are ready for it regardless of “how they did” in high school. It’s a new game and everyone starts at zero again.</p>
<p>Poetgrl
It’s hard to see him as a person and not the student.</p>
<p>He is a nasty person and seems to think he’s entitled to our finances. Reality is between financial aid and an external scholarship-- tuition was zero at pricey-U, so our out of pocket was going to cover just room and board. So his response is that he thinks we owe him a roof and food. that’s still a very large bill for Spring and it’s small change to have him cough it up directly.<br>
I could be less upset if it were simply Cs if I knew he was trying his best-- but he’s not trying to be his best. He cuts classes and he is online on FB or playing video games constantly. He earned Ds-- you don’t have to do much to get a D and that is essentially my point-- he did nothing and on my dime. No job, no work study- enjoying campus life. (Thankfully, no drugs or alcohol-- he’s actually the dorm wing monitor-- he has said some unflattering thinks about students who drink and how he’s had to report people and call campus policefor those in danger.)
You support a person who believes in themselves and when they are enjoyable to be around. He’s just simply unpleasant. Sure he’s angry, disappointed and sad…but we’re hear to help, to listen, but not be told he doesn’t want to see or speak with us at all.
He is after all an adult and now a guest in our home-- we expect to be respected.</p>
<p>If he just got home give him a few days and then try again to sit down and talk. The “reality” of your disappointment was not in his face when he was at school and now he’s home and facing the proverbial piper. I’m guessing he’s nasty because he doesn’t want to confront his failure…but learning to “fess up” and learning to “confront failure” and learning how to take direction and advice from someone else are life lessons everyone has to learn at some point in life. You could always take the tactic of simply saying that you’ll leave him alone for a couple days but you’d like him to set a day and time next week before the holiday to talk about how he (and you) will handle spring and see if he comes around abit. If he does agee let him talk and you listen as much as possible before you dive into it.</p>
<p>A person like that really doesn’t even “need” your support.</p>
<p>Good luck. It sounds as if he is incredibly angry with himself and hasn’t yet been able to really face the reality of the situation he’s gotten himself into. I’m sorry it is so unpleasant, right now.</p>
<p>Dayton. My heart stopped when I read the OP is at Dayton. My S is sophomore there, and each semester after we talk, he says he’s going to buckle down. Engineering major, so wanted to cut him some slack, but with 2 D’s, an F, and a W he’s now a semester behind with “do-over’s”. Summer school is extra. HS was a breeze and SAT scores were excellent. I can’t decide if it’s the beer or his lack of organization and study skills. Whatever it is, he’s got to decide on a new course of action. Picking him up from the airport tonight. It’s time to figure out if he should go back next semester, or commute to the State U. I feel like I’m throwing good money after bad, and I have 2 others at home to fund in the next few years. Not looking forward to this.</p>
<p>Question… do your kids actually like what they are studying?</p>
<p>One of my friends in school was put on academic suspension or something after his first semester. He had almost all F’s, one D and I think maybe a B in something. He was studying Biology. He wasn’t a drinker… just spent every waking minute of every day doing everything BUT studying. Hanging out with friends… playing video games… sleeping… cooking… etc… Lots and lots of cooking… He’d cook up big meals for the whole floor… He wound up going back home to his parents, enrolled in community college for the next semester and got all A’s. Sent his updated transcript to our college and he was allowed to come back the next year. He did okay in sophomore year and finished one semester of junior year before realizing that he just really didn’t like biology and that he wanted to be a chef. He wound up getting his associates degree in Biology and enrolled in culinary school. He’s now a chef at some country club somewhere and absolutely loves it… says it was the best decision he ever made in his life.</p>
<p>Question… do your kids actually like what they are studying?</p>
<p>That is exactly the conversation we want to have with him and discuss exploration of some other fields while he has to retake a pre-req and before he can move on to the next courses in the sequence of his major.</p>
<p>He however has no intent to talk with us-- we tried on thanksgiving and even at parents weekend (which is when he was hinting at dropping one course)-- .</p>
<p>H is going to tell him there needs to be date to talk within the week-- or we will in fact send him back to school early. Dorm open with permission to stay (lots of internationals I guess) and he can leave rather than free load. I don’t need a slob sitting in his room eating our food and essentially having no human contact.</p>