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<p>I don’t know. I guess they’d actually have to study in order to answer that question.</p>
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<p>I really think it’s both. It’s a bad combination.</p>
<p>OP asked if she knew of any kids who partied-harty one semester, but got it together after that. My own son really struggled with the logistics of going to college. TAs, recitations, syllabuses, mailrooms, laundry = too much. He didn’t get it together by the second semester either. Instead though, he came home and commuted. He eventually graduated on the Dean’s List with an Honors from his department, but logistics were (are) always a struggle.</p>
<p>I also know of another young student who liked the parties, but not school. His parents were floored when they saw his grades after his first semester, and he failed second semester too. After that, he came home like a dog with his tail between his legs and tried a few courses at a community college. Switched majors several times and ended up dropping out altogether. Although he spent at least 2 1/2 years in college, he has achieved only about a semester’s worth of credits and swears he’d never go back. Some kids just don’t like to study.</p>
<p>I really like the book “More Attention, Less Deficit” which is targeted towards adults with ADD but has lots of good stuff for anyone. One of the best parts is the early chapter that describes “Executive Function” – or when you know it’s time to get going and the motivation to then get moving. </p>
<p>I think many, many males develop “Executive Function” later and differently. I realized that DH and I were providing the Executive Function for S2 throughout high school, in part because we live in a rural area and we provided a lot of the transportation to school and events. It was second nature to say “ok, time to get going for that class/project/performance” and then say “hey, you don’t have your backpack, jacket, project board” which pulled the kid’s chestnuts out of any impending fire. </p>
<p>I warned S2 that college is a lot more unforgiving. You have to hit the ground running and keep running all term. Grades just arrived and are . . . seriously underwhelming. But he seems to know where he went off track. </p>
<p>We’re blessed because S2 will take input. He’s always been an easy going personality and will take an idea and mull it over politely, even if he discards it later. I think it is far harder to parent a kid who is prickly and/or embarrassed. </p>
<p>We had an interesting conversation with a professor at a nearby college. He said that his college had problems retaining freshmen and sophomores but had excellent outcomes once kids reached the junior year. I’m sitting there, thinking about the SLOWWW development of Executive Function, and I am wondering “is it that the freshman program is poor or that student’s executive function is poor?” Two years older can make a big difference in performance. </p>
<p>Many men of my father’s generation ruefully remember WWII boot camp. Twelve weeks of intense programming on aspects of Executive Function given by relentless, tough men produced lasting results for many – but that’s a lot harsher (and not necessarily meaningful) than I think my guy needs. Where’s the World of Warcraft instant reward for getting your butt to class on time? Gee, just a few bags of gold or swords of fury would sure help . . .</p>
<p>I failed my first semester of college and had brought my gpa up to a 3.7 by the end of sophomore year. My first semester was one half lack of preparedness and one half slacking off. I wasn’t a partier, and was living at home for that matter, but I just didn’t realize how much more work would be required than in high school until I bombed that first semester.</p>
<p>My parents didn’t need to punish me or threaten to take me out of school. It was established that they were seriously annoyed with me and I took it from there. Every kid is different, though, you’re the only one who can know how best to handle the situation now. He can pull up his grades if he really wants to, but only if he really wants to.</p>
<p>Olymom, I think you are correct about it taking some (esp. boys) longer to get a grip on things. Like you, I was too much the executive for S2 in h.s.
As I said in an earlier post his first sem. resulted resulted in 4F’s and 2D’s.
This sem. (now a junior) he made a 3.46…what a difference two years makes.</p>
<p>In the same boat… would love to know how these boys are doing a year later.</p>
<p>How did things turn out?</p>
<p>My cousin also majored in partying his freshman year. After his dad pleaded with the school to give him one more chance, he blew that too. So, it was off to work for him starting at the very bottom at a job his dad set him up in (and had a foreman to keep an eye on him). Didn’t take him too long (about 12 to 18 months) to figure out how much he messed up. He went back to school (a different one from the one he started at) and got his degree. He has been sucessful in his work, married with two great kids.</p>
<p>So the way I see it, if you have the will and the desire to do well, you will. It just might take a little time to get on the right track.</p>
<p>I have read this thread and thought about it from two perspectives.</p>
<p>I feel for the parents who have to make these tough decisions, and as a parent I know that every kid is different. I also understand the frustration of knowing that your child is throwing away opportunities that many people dream of. It is a leap of faith to send a kid back hoping that they will turn the situation around. Conversely, as a parent you will be nagged by those feelings of “Did I do the right thing by pulling him out of school??” Parenting is not easy! </p>
<p>However, after being raised in a very strict family (mom almost did not allow me to attend senior prom because I would have been out until after 11:00PM) I graduated early from a suburban public high school in New York to attend the University of Miami. I went CRAZY the first semester and made up for my sheltered high school life. I had a great time- in the wrong kind of ways. After report cards came out and I noticed ACADEMIC PROBATION at the bottom of the report, I decided that I wanted to graduate from college and went back. I did not immediately turn things around as my second report card still contained a couple of C’s. I did survive- and graduated (one semester late). I wound up having to take out some student loans that I later paid off. This was 30 years ago.</p>
<p>There were three of us at U Dayton, who had this problem. I believe storytime was the only mom who let her son go back. Docmom, the OP, made her son get a job, after his first semester. I’m not sure what he’s doing now. I gave my D a second chance at a local university, second semester of last year, but that didn’t go well either. She is now working part-time at a minimum wage job. She asked to go back second semester of this year, but we refused. I’m still not sure she’s ready.</p>
<p>My son’s freshman roommate was partying way too hard. UD gives quarter grades to freshmen students. When this kid got poor first quarter grades, he was required to attend mandatory study sessions to get help and turn things around. He did. I was impressed by the quick action the school took to identify and help students who were struggling.</p>
<p>Students at Dayton get midterm grades, one week before the last date to drop classes. That may be enough warning for some students, but not for others. My daughter was assigned two special “study sessions” from Day 1, but no one noticed she wasn’t attending, so I don’t think you can call them mandatory. I’m glad your son’s roommate turned things around.</p>
<p>I am a University of Dayton reject. I finally did get into another college during the summer after graduation when I was chosen off the wait list. I earned a 3.7+ GPA and was accepted by a highly regarded US medical school and earned my MD. I am now over 60 and closing me practice so I can retire but whenever I hear about the University of Dayton it brings back a vivid memory. 40+ years ago I did all my screwing up in high school and at the end of my junior year I had a 1.6 GPA and was ranked last in a class of 64 in a very rigorous Jesuit high school. One thing that probably steeled my determination to become a good student was a letter I recieved from the University of Dayton. It was the first college I applied to and the first one I received a letter from. I opened it and saw not only the standard typed rejection letter but also saw that someone in their admissions department had taken a pen and in large letters hand wrote on the letter “Extremely poor high school record” which struck me as gratuatous to send to a 17 year old boy since obviously I knew what my record in high school up to that point had been. I determined I would never suffer another academic humiliation like that again and I never did.</p>
<p>After reading this and Toledo’s threads I am now thinking UD really did me a favor by rejecting me since it does not sound like it has the kind of atmosphere that is conducive to a freshman coming in and becoming a serious student.</p>
<p>Yes, Lemaitre1, consider yourself blessed. I don’t know if the partying used to be so prevalent, but I have heard that the ghetto area was really run down 30 years ago, with rats running through it. They’ve now fixed it up, making it a very attractive mega-block party area.</p>
<p>update: S2 (he of the 4 F’s and 2 D’s first sem. of freshman yr…2008) graduated in May 2012.
After his horrendous start, he made the Honor Roll ( 3.0 or better) four semesters and Dean’s List (3.75) his final semester. He attended summer sch. twice to make up for the failed first sem. He graduated with a gpa of 3.05.<br>
He was a very avg. student in h.s. who wasn’t even sure he would attend a university until senior yr. so this has been a real victory for him. </p>
<p>His university is a notorious party school. It was in the top ten of the Playboy party sch. list a couple of years ago. S2 is no wallflower. He still spent plenty of time enjoying the college nightlife at school. He just learned how to balance it. His advice on how to have fun but still make decent grades…just go to class.</p>
<p>Old history, but one of my kids had an extremely poor first semester at his college of choice. First issue was identifying the problem. It was a combination of partying-skipping classes-drinking, and taking two science classes even though he wasn’t a science kid.</p>
<p>I told him that we wouldn’t pay for college again below an overall 3.0 GPA. He could take student loans but I wouldn’t co-sign for them. (Our original offer was to try to pay for 4 years of college without debt, based on a particular cost ceiling and graduation in 4years. If he lost credits or struggled with finding a major, he would have to pay for the extra time in school.)</p>
<p>I told him that I would pay for the Spring semester at School #1, but he had to transfer to a state school where the cost would be signficantly less for his second year. Alternatively, I suggested that he take a year off if he wasn’t sure what he wanted to do.</p>
<p>Second semester he did significantly better, since first semester was a real wake-up call. He was determined to stay in college and applied to state schools as a transfer student. When looking at majors, he discovered a major that he wanted at our state’s flagship university. As a sophomore, he went to a state school that he hated with the ultimate goal of getting into the flagship university. Since he hated being at School #2 so much, he chose not to get involved there and did nothing but study. His grades were great. He was in touch with the flagship department that offered his major, and worked with them when selecting classes at School #2 so that his credits would transfer. With the good grades he got Spring semester of School #1 and the great grades he earned as a sophomore at School #2, he was able to transfer into the flagship. He ended up having to negotiate over some of his credits to stay on a 4-year track. He was glad he had retained all of the emails with the flagship’s department since they tried to renege on giving him credit for two classes he had taken at their recommendation. </p>
<p>The flagship did not use his GPA at School #1 when calculating his GPA there. He ultimately graduated with a very high GPA (almost a 4.0 in his major) from the flagship School #3. He achieved graduation in 4 years. That flagship’s diploma is on his wall, and no one knows the hard path he took to earn it. </p>
<p>When faced with adversity now, this “kid” (mid-20s) tries to figure out alternative ways to achieve something. He doesn’t take “no” or “you can’t do it” for an answer anymore. He learned that sometimes there are alternative ways to achieve a result, and he never, ever gives up anymore. He also doesn’t blow opportunities now. That first semester affected his college years signficantly, but it didn’t stop him. </p>
<p>I should note that this kid’s scores wouldn’t have gotten him into the flagship as a freshman.</p>
<p>OP here. Thought I’d give you all an update. S3 took a couple community college classes, got B’s, took a couple more and just stopped going, so there’s two F’s. Took a year off and taking ONE online class right now, paid for by himself. We told him if he got an A or B we’d fully reimburse him. At least if he flunks now it’s on his own dime.</p>
<p>He’s working at a restaurant/bar in the city he graduated HS from (we moved) and painting and doing landscaping jobs on the side for extra money. And boy does he sound more mature - paying your own freight will do that for you I guess. I went to visit for a night recently and while it pains me to see him not in college, at this point he knows where he’s at and what he needs to do if he wants it. Counting his AP courses he probably has one full semester of college credit at age 22. He’s got a long row to hoe but it’s on him now.</p>
<p>Some of them take a little longer to grow up than others. My own son was like that…he’s 26 now and almost as mature as my 17 year-old. Eventually, I think the majority of them do make their own future on their own time. As parents, sometimes the hardest thing is to let them do that.</p>
<p>To add another anecdote, I failed my first quarter, then my second quarter, and then my third quarter in college. I dropped out, changed my major, and started taking community college classes (without ever supporting myself financially or paying my own tuition) and have gotten straight As ever since. Moral of the story: some students fail because they are unmotivated, and they are unmotivated because they do not see how the coursework relates to what they want to do in life. Sometimes a change of major provides that motivation. For me, it was all about getting to write code in class, since programming has been a hobby of mine since middle school. That push gave me the momentum to motivate myself even in classes without programming assignments.</p>
<p>Which is not necessarily true for all students. Just be aware of how the subject matter of college classes can affect a student’s motivation.</p>
<p>EDIT: I just saw the date the thread was posted. :-/</p>
<p>Op,
I had a 1.9 gpa in fall quarter at UCLA in CS major due to too much partying and not going to class. Turned it around. Didn’t get all As, but got better at balancing the socializing with the studying. Graduated and worked at a big 8 CPA firm (now a big 4 firm).</p>
<p>A good book to get is “how to be a straight A student” by cal Newport. It goes over ways to study efficiently so that you can get to the socializing part of college.</p>