<p>I don’t know if this is just me or if maybe we struck OUR parents the same way. What do you think? And not all my children are like this. But more than one is and I sincerely wonder and worry they are signs of selfishness. Maybe that is the wrong choice of words. Maybe it is my D working very hard NOT to be me, her mother.</p>
<p>What I do notice is, she never economizes.They eat out regularly for a young married couple, more than my family ever did. The baby is always in the finest clothing, while I was pleased as punch to have a baby and hand me downs never mattered one bit. The most expensive drinks are always in the fridge and a coupon is never clipped or sale item ever purchased. Her hair is done at a salon regularly , even occasional pedicures, while I bought the boxed kit and painted my own toes.And idle chatter includes mentioning items seen in the finest stores. I kind of wonder where all this is going. Limiting one’s family size so you can have pedicures? Maybe I sound goofy.</p>
<p>Naw, she’s trying NOT to be her mother. Right?</p>
<p>Well, if she has the money to spend on new baby clothes and feels her time could be spent in some better way than by clipping coupons, then what’s the problem? I thought this post was going to be about grown children expecting money or some kind of financial support from their parents. Why do you even care how she is spending her money? It’s not spent on drugs or gambling but on dinners out and occassional pedicures. If she isn’t spending way above her means, which it doesn’t sound like she is, and her spending isn’t on harmful things, which it isn’t, then I just don’t see what the problem is. </p>
<p>I’m not trying to be glib here, but I don’t understand. What about her behavior upsets you?</p>
<p>It doesn’t sound at all to me like a daughter trying to be different than the mother issue. Quality of life in the US with all those little things you mentioned has been improving for centuries. Your parents had much less than you, I’m assuming. I’m guessing pedicures are comparatively less expensive than they were thirty years ago, not to mention the fact that your daughter may very well be making more relative money than you did at her age. Money changes. There is a lower portion of income today spent on food, for example, leaving more money to be spent in other ways. Things are cheaper. The fact is, spending habits change throughout time (incomes change, prices change, preferences shift, the way people value their time has changed, the role of women has changed, etc.), and I don’t see what’s wrong with that.</p>
<p>Because I had to economize to have a family. I mean, I’m not going to give thousands for the baby’s education while she’s having pedicures.Right?</p>
<p>Naw. It just shocks me. I was so influenced by my Depression Era mother.I thought the grandest thing in life was to have more children if we had the money to support them, and economize. And here is my kids who buy and shop the finest and I’m shocked.</p>
<p>Oh no, they don’t want anything at all.</p>
<p>Sad to say, I am now an ananchonism.</p>
<p>You see, there was an attitude among my parents generation that selfishness is bad.That there should be a certain amount of self -sacrifice.And that came about by having a large family and providing for them.But now maybe what it is all about is volunteerism. That your self sacrifice is to volunteer time. The world is different now and maybe I ahven’t quite caught on to that.</p>
<p>Well, not getting much discussion here. Guess I’ll just go away.Have a nice night!</p>
<p>We started out with our 2 precious little cakes much like your D is. H and I were Yuppies before there was a name for the syndrome. </p>
<p>My in-laws sent checks AND gifts for every occasion. I put those checks into savings bonds. My husband didn’t know about the checks for a very long time. My In-laws didn’t know about the bonds until I told them. (It would have been easier if the MIL had gotten the bonds, though, since banking with two-under-two was a challenge. Not to mention the temptation of cash for ME.) </p>
<p>If you’re worried about the baby’s future, start a 529 or buy bonds along with the standard gifts. A little bit put away today will be a true gift later. Parents will absolutely be thrilled, I can guarantee. </p>
<p>PS I don’t think she’s rejecting you…I hesitated when it came to having children because I didn’t think I could give as much to them as my mother and sisters had given to their children. She will come around, I think. </p>
<p>It’s your choice whether or not to tell your children.</p>
<p>No, I’m not telling them a thing. The U.S.A. is more affluent today, although you wouldn’t think so when you see all the folks in need. It’s all a toss of the dice, some rain falls on every parade. It just shocks me to see affluence in my own family.C.C. is the greatest place to vent!</p>
<p>Goodness, backhandgrip, I hear you loud and clear! I DO understand (no it’s not just you!) and I see the same thing in my grown son age 24.</p>
<p>During grad school, when we had extra money, we put hot dogs in our Kraft macaroni and cheese.</p>
<p>Son and gf order sushi delivered to their NYC apartment a few times a week, they rarely cook. They eat out all the time in spite of a combined 6-figure college loan repayment schedule. More power to them! </p>
<p>He often calls me from a cab on the way home rather than taking the subway.</p>
<p>Of course we all know it’s their life, their money, but you’re right it’s interesting to compare how we lived so frugally at the same age.</p>
<p>BHG – I have yet to have a pedicure. But I do have other extravagances, I suppose. Not shoes, nor clothes. Not cars. But I have been buying lots of books and CD’s. And those darn school tuitions, that is an extravagance to some, I guess. </p>
<p>You know, clothes really are cheaper than they used to be. You can dress a baby pretty nice for not that much money these days . . .</p>
<p>Back in the day, when we were not very well off, I remember one of my first extravagances was buying bottled water . . .</p>
Think about the poor people in America today, and compare their lives with the lives of the very rich figures in our Nation’s history. Everyone is better off. Even many of the very poorest people in the US have running water, electricity, quality shoes, access to some healthcare needs that didn’t even exist in the past, and many other things that even the very richest people couldn’t get (because they didn’t exist). A lot of people living in trailer parks have big screen TVs from Walmart. Almost anyone can buy a bus ticket to the next town when in the past people had to walk or ride on a carriage attached to a horse. Even after that cars were slow, couldn’t travel many places, and only available to the richest of the rich. Almost everyone in the US today has a phone and access to a computer with the internet and virtually unlimited information. The list goes on. I definitely don’t at all mean to reduce the problems of the poor, but quality of life has improved across the board.</p>
<p>I have to be very careful not to offend anyone.I do not look down on anyone who goes to a salon or eats out or buys expensive drinks. I do not.
I’m just shocked to see it in my own family.I took so many buses and had so much fun shopping at garage sales and shopping for kids clothes in second hand stores!</p>
<p>Also, like you said Corranged, the quality of life here has improved across the board.Fact is, and this is no lie, my grandfather, yes MY GRANDFATHER was born in 1868.That’s right 1868. So, my particular feelings may be a little askewed when I speak about the Depression and the influence my older family has had on me.</p>
<p>My children are not grown yet, so I don’t know how they will be when they reach the ages when they are supporting themselves.</p>
<p>I do think that what you are observing with your D (or your D and whichever other kids you’ve noticed this in) does not so much reflect “selfishness” but rather a more general societal movement toward self-indlugence without guilt. This I HAVE noticed even in my children who are still in our home. </p>
<p>For example, at my age, I have never: 1.) had a manicure or pedicure, 2.) ridden in a limo, 3.) traveled for no other reason than because I wanted to go somehwere, 4.) had any major hair treatment in a salon, 5.) bought “designer” clothing or jewelry, etc., etc., etc. To this day, I will not order a drink in a restaurant (even non-alcoholic) because I am thinking, “I could get a whole 2-LITER of whatever for THAT amount of money!” On the other hand, my hubster and I splurge on some things: Take out food from excellent (but reasonable) places that we share in our “late night dinners,” some brunches or dinners out, and meaningful gifts to each other (my dh is exceedingly generous). <em>AND</em>, I had my first and ONLY professional massages EVER, which some of you “oldtimers” may remember were courtesy of a very generous CCer!! </p>
<p>These “sacrifices” come naturally to me as this is the way I was raised (my father was a rabbi back in the day when they made NOTHING) and with six kids, we have to prioritize how we spend our own money. However, my kids have had many of the luxuries I’ve never had. Some of them have gotten together with a whole group and rented a limo for prom, and my older D’s have had very occasional manicures or pedicures when they’ve gone with friends. On rare occasion, they’ve had their hair styled or streaked in a salon, things which I’ve never done. They would definitely not hesitate to order a drink in a restaurant (though they don’t when they’re with us! <em>lol</em>). I don’t see these things so much as an expression of “entitlement” (they all express immense gratitude upon receiving ANYTHING), but rather a desire to have/do some of the same things that their peers with less children in their families do. And the LAST thing I EVER want is for any of my kids to resent the “sacrifices” we’ve had to make to sustain this large family, so I don’t mind their doing these types of things on occasion. In fact, I rejoice at their opportunities and try to indulge them when I feel it’s important to them. And they don’t ask often.</p>
<p>I suppose I just view this phenomenon as part of the quintessential “generation gap,” and it doesn’t bother me. To me, everyone is more than entitled to one thing: his or her own choice about how to live life! :)</p>
<p>That is truly a well spoken post berurah. You do write and express yourself very well.Thank you for the help.You are right, it’s just the Generation Gap in play.</p>
<p>The problem is that as the years go on, and I have certainly indulged my kids, the gap between us widens .Now they are adults and the communication is diminished because they live in such a different way.I find myself sharing playdoh recipes and Jello jiggler recipes and she doesn’t give a darn. She’s telling me about some great concert or movie and I’m talking about making paper bag puppets and babysitting co ops. A little bit of a disconnect.</p>
<p>And just to let you know, when no advice is taken when you have grandchildren, that hurts. I’m not spouting advice. Mostly it’s idle chatter. But it just dosen’t matter to her. They are a little tough this new generation.
And another thing, she doesn’t remember a thing from her youth.She doesn’t want to remember the good times or how we did things or anything .Her friends, their opinions and ways carry all the weight with her. And I can’t figure it out. Family was everything to me. </p>
<p>And remember sewing and walking to the library and bringing home an armload of books? What a treasure!</p>
<p>I can <em>definitely</em> understand where you’re coming from and how you might feel somewhat “detached” from your children when there is such a wide gap in your experiences of childrearing. That must be <em>really</em> hard, and it’s a bridge that I’ve not crossed yet, but I can certainly imagine how I’d feel in your situation. </p>
<p>There are times when I even feel this way with my friends…times when the shared experiences are just not there by virtue of our differences in financial status and/or chosen priorities. And it’s hard to feel that way…it is. Sometimes, it requires a great deal of effort to seek out and find common ground. I really hope that you are able to do that with your D and all of your children, even if their life experiences reflect different priorities and different times in history than yours. </p>
<p>
This just HURTS. No two ways about that, sweetie. {{{{{HUGS to you}}}}} I suspect that as your precious grandbaby gets older and the parenting books begin to fail your D (as they do all of us <em>lol</em>), she will begin to look to you for your experience and wisdom. </p>
<p>I know it’s frustrating now, and I totally sympathize with you, but I honestly feel that things will get better as time goes by and your D realizes that her mama knew what she was talking about all along! :)</p>
<p>Even though we are different than our parents were, most of us admire them. I didn’t let my folks know that until I was older and raising my own family, because before that I was establishing a separate identity. Some day your daughter will surprise you with an out-of-the-blue compliment.</p>
<p>One thing I enjoy about geting older (amongst all the things that stink) is that I am letting go of a lot. I don’t judge behavior that doesn’t hurt anyone and I cut people lots of slack because I’ve learned we usually don’t know the whole story. And I’ve finally realized that peoples’ differences are what makes the world interesting. Even the differences I have with my grown and growing kids.
Backhand, you sound like a caring Mom. Instead of worrying, try a pedicure with the warm paraffin wax–nothing like it for kicking back and it was my daughter who turned me on to it!</p>
<p>Are they saving any money? Or do they think owning stuff represents money? </p>
<p>I’ve sat in young marrieds and talked a losing battle over setting aside money for down the road vs. a new sofa. I’ve seen new wives cash out perfectly fine insurance policies that are working quite well for a nicer dinner table. Like you, I worry for kids. They are far far better consumers than savers. You’re not being unreasonable, your being experienced. </p>
<p>Next time around, round aboutly ask are you guys saving for college? retirement and listen. If they are packing away 10-15% into college/retirement they’re doing pretty good. If they have no savings and all this stuff, worry. </p>
<p>There’s a new trend in retirement called going RED. That is, retirees are going out of the workforce with more debt than ever before and without the current income to eliminate the debt, which then drains retirement savings that much faster. </p>
<p>I have pounded into my kids heads about saving, neither are married yet. Then we’ll see if what they’ve been taught will carry over or bend over.</p>
<p>BHG- I do see this as very common in my generation as well, but our kids have really grown up with it. The yuppies started the “living well at all costs” trend and now our kids feel “entitled” and that it is “normal”. ( disclaimer… not ALL kids, not ALL families, etc…don’t want to go down that road LOL )</p>
<p>I agree with Opie - I fear for the next generation of retirees as “saving” is not in style. We try to explain this to our kids often when they point out such and such’s new mcmansion or comment on our 10 year old cars. I hope they have learned that what you see is not always what you get ( as in the deep debt that lies behind some of that excess consumption). </p>
<p>Try not to feel too hurt by her rejection of your parenting advice - I am afraid I did the same to my mom at times and I love her and respect her dearly. Just part of being a parent and wanting to feel confident in her own decisions. She’s probably listening more than you know : )</p>
<p>I’m glad you could vent here a little . And in case anyone is wondering why I am posting at this hour? A windstorm is ripping through my area and keeping me awake ! LOL</p>
<p>* mean, I’m not going to give thousands for the baby’s education while she’s having pedicures.Right?*</p>
<p>actually from my side of the fence I think that is great.
While I rarely did anything for myself when my kids were young, in retrospect, I wish I had done much more.
My D presently is in NYC- taking a trip she planned and paid for herself ( she hasn’t gone anywhere besides the Northwest since she graduated from high school)
I am happy for her, if a bit envious.
Im wondering if that could be something?
I realize that moms often sacrifice a lot for their kids- including themselves & I think it is important to take care of mom- first- like they say in the airplane emergency lecture ;)</p>
<p>BHG: I understand what you mean. I see my stepsons (and their wives) buying things that they don’t need and can’t really afford. One couple (stepson age 26) dined and stayed overnight at a fine hotel for their anniversary, and he bought her diamond earrings for Christmas, new computer for himself. We are still paying their car insurance…b/c they can’t afford it themselves.</p>
<p>The other couple paid a huge amount of money for a purebred dog, have quite expensive new couches, etc. They do pay their own car insurance.</p>
<p>That whole living very frugally in the early years of a marriage (to save for a house, while raising young children) is not so common as in our day or our parents’ and grandparents’ eras. My H and I have often discussed how our lean years as young 20-somethings made us stronger people.</p>
<p>there can be a disconnect when you don’t share the same financial philosophy, whether its between parent and child, neighbors, friends whatever.</p>
<p>I’ve been thinking about this, too, as my brother and I were recently dicussing our mother, and he was lamenting that he didn’t know “how she lived on so little” before she died. My own perception of her situation was much different. I don’t think she minded making do… her home, with a large amount of acreage, which she loved, had been paid for long ago…and she was rich in friendships and the love of her family. She clipped coupons and looked for sales, and lived frugally, but not joylessly. My brother and I both treated her to frequent vacations with our families. Her generation did things this way. She was happy with what she had, and didn’t feel deprived at all. She took some classes and learned to paint in her later years. Painting ptojects and spending time with friends and family, and enjoying nature were her entertainment.</p>
<p>I believe the term for what you’re describing is called “conspicuous consumption”. Huge Hummers and SUV’s to drive to Starbucks and drive the kids to school? I see way too much of this type of thing, too.</p>
<p>The paradox is that the millionaire next door drives a 10 year old economy car, right?</p>
<p>so, bhg, I hear you…and I have a feeling your grandchildren will love you very much, and appreciate your homemade playdoh and walks to the library for books…</p>
On the other hand, my hubster and I splurge on some things: Take out food from excellent (but reasonable) places that we share in our “late night dinners,” some brunches or dinners out, and meaningful gifts to each other (my dh is exceedingly generous). <em>AND</em>, I had my first and ONLY professional massages EVER, which some of you “oldtimers” may remember were courtesy of a very generous CCer!!