<p>We won’t really start the application process for another year or two, but are planners. I appreciate the individual experiences and collective wisdom of this thoughtful group. Can anyone speak to making a choice to solely pursue non-acronym schools even if they had objective reason to think their child is/was competitive for whatever one might define as the top-tier schools? I don’t mean picked other schools as back-up, but just decided to opt out of what I see here is the acronym world. What plusses or minuses might be associated with being near the top of admitted applicants at these non-acronym schools than at the middle or bottom of an acronym school? </p>
<p>Junior at an acronym school here. Acronym schools tend to have great relationships with certain top colleges. You really have to look at the Naviance of each school to see what I mean–if you see green dots everywhere near the top right corner of the scattergrams, it means the school has a good relationship with the respective colleges. If the top right corner has blue dots and x’s as well as green dots, it means that the relationship is just average. </p>
<p>So put it this way–if you think you can maintain a 3.8+ (top 15%) at an acronym school, go there, because the school’s reputation gives you a CLEAR edge in certain top colleges. But if you think you’ll be in the bottom half, you’d better go to a less competitive school and graduate in the top 10%. Granted, even a 3.3/3.4 here (median GPA) could easily find admissions at top 30-35 colleges (think NYU, W&M) because the reputation is just very good. </p>
<p>On the other hand, if you think you’re good enough to be in the 10% of an Acronym school, you’re also likely to be 5% of a great non-acronym school (I’m thinking St. Andrew’s, Thacher–again look at the schools’ matriculation lists to see whether or not they might have a good relationship with top colleges), GO TO THE HIDDEN GEM because it will be not as competitive and cut-throat to gain leadership positions in the extra-curriculars (to this day, I still think I should have enrolled at SAS). </p>
<p>(I’m just hypothesizing in the paragraph above, since these things are difficult to quantify). </p>
<p>Interesting and difficult question. One reason that my children are applying to boarding school is so that they can be with their intellectual peers. I think that was the real impetus for my son in deciding on this path. So we do not want to send him to any school where there will not be a significant cohort of kids who are as intelligent as he is or more and who love learning as much as he does or more. And ditto for my daughter. We are not trying to ensure that they will easily be among the top students at a school; in fact, we rejected some schools on that basis. But I would not want to send them anywhere where they would struggle to stay in the middle or even bottom of the pack, either.</p>
<p>I teach at a non-acronym school, and there are definitely students here who could do very well academically at any school–Not just survive or be in the middle or bottom of the class. Some are here because of family tradition, others just loved the vibe of the campus, some didn’t apply elsewhere for geographical reasons. I’ve never yet run into a kid who thought that this school was beneath them academically. When our highest level kids compare the work they do here to what their friends at Acronym schools are doing, they don’t see tremendous difference. I’ve felt similarly when observing my colleagues from Ac schools, but I teach an off-beat discipline, so who knows.</p>
<p>Before anyone jumps all over me, I’ll make it clear that I am NOT claiming that any of my points are true ONLY of non-acronym schools. This entire board is dedicated to praising 5-10 schools, and I’m not knocking them. They are great. Here’s a little insight from the #11—#30 perspective.</p>
<p>PROS:
- The best teachers can and do wind up at all different kinds of schools, many outside of New England and California. Check the percentage of teachers with Masters Degrees, an overlooked but potentially worthwhile stat.
- Some schools give merit scholarships to top-performing kids.
+Kids here are not competitive about college admissions–they are genuinely thrilled and supportive for the Ivy League admits, but proud for the girl who got a full ROTC scholarship to Pitt. (I grew up in the heart of New England college snobbery and I love this aspect of life here.) - When advanced kids need more challenge, teachers are happy to provide it.
- Student body has a wider “diversity of dreams,” and there is a pretty generous definition of “good college.”
- Even kids who are never going to get over 2000 on their SATs generally like school and like their teachers, and want to do well.
- Plenty of smart and interesting kids go to these schools. </p>
<p>CONS:
- There will be kids at these schools (although not in honors classes) who struggle academically, and who will voice negative attitudes about school work. I think twinsmama makes a very good point–you want your kid to be surrounded with kids who like learning, are excited by school, and make challenging peers. While the brightest kids in the #11-30 schools will find this in their classes and in general around school, their dorms and teams will have a wider range of abilities and attitudes. the “ugh I hate schoolwork” mentality is pretty rare here, but it’s not unheard of.<br>
- American high school culture tends to place a bewildering amount of value on being good at sports. Sports culture can be very consuming at my school (and where my friends teach as well.)
-The status obsession and interest in exclusivity that causes some to seek ‘The Acronym World’ is present in Non-Ac schools as well. - Reading this board too much can make you worry that any school outside the vaunted Acronyms is just full of paste-eaters.</p>
<p>My DD was accepted at a day school equivalent of an acronym school. She chose a hidden gem instead, with our full support. She felt she’d be lost in the shuffle at the school with the stronger reputation.</p>
<p>As a graduate of the school she’d rejected I fully understood as I reflected back on my high school experience. I found that it was hard to be at the top of the heap in anything when surrounded by superstar classmates.</p>
<p>I was an ISL all-league athlete, but I had classmates who went to the Olympics. I was a National Merit Finalist but had a classmate who scored double 800’s on the old 1600 scale. A few years after my class graduated from college the editor of my high school newspaper was writing for the Boston Globe, the guy who acted in the school play was a well known working actor, the guy who won the French award was working for the UN. I left my high school feeling like I was intellectually dull and not particularly talented. It wasn’t until I spent a few years in a small pond that I got my confidence back and spread my wings, taking on leadership positions and making my mark on the college.</p>
<p>I hope you won’t let your child think s/he is not good enough for an acronym school; just take the dynamic I’ve described into account when making your decision. My child has been extremely happy at her hidden gem. She has friends who are equally happy at acronym schools. It’s really a matter of matching the school to the child.</p>
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<p>Many parents don’t want their children to board. Thus, there are children at many schools who would have had a chance at admission at large, famous boarding schools. The “acronym world” is pretty much a creation of this board. I can think of quite a few schools which are top schools, but aren’t frequently mentioned on this board. It amuses me when someone pops up every year to ask if Groton, Milton, or Lawrenceville are any good. (answer: yes, they are!)</p>
<p>I would recommend that any applicant visit a range of schools. High school is an academic, social, athletic, and cultural experience. Some schools will “fit” better than others. If you read enough visit reports on this site, from many years, you’ll notice many parents and students reporting discovering a school they thought would be the top of their list left them cold after a visit. </p>
<p>The student who is at the top of his or her class at the end of high school will have more choices when applying to college. Howard Greene speaks of the “top one-thirder.” That is, a student who is in the top one-third of the class will have challenging academics, time for extracurriculars, and time to make friends. It is better to be in the top third of a less well-known school than at the bottom of a very competitive school. </p>
<p>Yes. We listened to what dd wanted in a high school and a small community is important to her. </p>
<p>Thank you for your responses, each one is really helpful. </p>
<p>All in hindsight, am grateful that our first kid was waitlisted at the one acronym. He could have done the work there, but is gaining more valuable experiences as a top one-thirder at a very good hidden gem. We value the smaller community as a better fit for this kid (and for younger one).</p>
<p>While we did not totally exclude ACRONYM schools in our search for either of our daughters, on A10 of 2011, 7D1 picked a non-ACRONYM over the “S” in HADES and is now a junior at St. Andrew’s in Delaware (the SAS in MBVLoveless’ post above].</p>
<p>Her process is chronicled here, and may be worth reading if you haven’t yet:
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/prep-school-parents/1174214-one-familys-bs-search-and-application-process--start-to-finish.html#latest”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/prep-school-parents/1174214-one-familys-bs-search-and-application-process--start-to-finish.html#latest</a></p>
<p>7D1 was a 99% (including 2 sections of 800) SSAT scorer and looks to be on track for NMSF based on her 2013 PSAT (shorthand for I think she was objectively a strong candidate at even the most selective schools). Note that she did not pick SAS so she could be a “bigger fish in a smaller pond”…we all just happened to really like what we saw at SAS vs. other schools. And we still do.</p>
<p>FWIW, I would advise you NOT to exclude the ACRONYMS in your search. Who knows, one might be the best fit for your child…plenty of active parents on the forum whose kids have had/are having great experiences at these schools.</p>
<p>My personal crusade (greatly ratcheted down from its peak fervor!) to encourage people to think beyond the ACRONYMS [a term I use mostly satirically] is a reaction to what I consider an obsession by many newcomers with the most famous schools…the schools which need no explanation after their name [whereas I generally include the description “it was where ‘Dead Poets Society’ was filmed” in my explanation of where my daughter goes to high school when I get blank stares].</p>
<p>For starters, I think most prospective kids/parents are seriously deluded about how difficult it is to get admitted to schools like Exeter/Andover/St. Paul’s/Groton. Even this cycle, we’ve see kids with their hearts set on ultra electives in September only to get middling (or worse) SSAT scores that perhaps indicate that, academically speaking, they would be well below average in both the applicant pool and the admitted class.</p>
<p>But many can’t see past the “big name”/“prestige” or report that their parents “won’t let them apply to ‘second-tier’ schools”. This characterization has always bugged me…how would people feel if I called them/their kid a “second-tier applicant”? Probably not that great, even though, in comparison to many in the pool, they are.</p>
<p>My parting advice is to keep an open mind about all schools…do not exclude the big names just because they are big names…and be VERY objective/realistic about your kid’s profile. Cast a wide net, at least initially, and don’t fall in love with any school until you find out if they love you. Oh, and if you are open to the West Coast, Cate and Thacher should be on the list…</p>
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<p>Love it, Albion, just love it. Thanks for all of your informative posts, and thanks for that line.</p>
<p>We looked at a wide range of schools, including some HADES, some hidden gems and some others that are maybe somewhere in-between. DS in general didn’t gravitate toward the HADES schools that we saw. I don’t think that he was necessarily thinking about it from an academic POV, it was more social. Coming from NYC, he’s looking for a new crowd, and he felt that he wouldn’t get that at Hotchkiss or Deerfield. He really likes Thacher, Cate, Milton and SAS, and doesn’t feel that any of these are a “step down” from the HADES schools that we saw. My sense, based on his friends etc, is that this HADES obsession (as well as the Ivy obsession) really comes from the parents.</p>
<p>So Marasalva, to more directly answer your question, I wouldn’t exclude the acronym schools from your search. Frankly I loved some of the ones that we toured (Andover for example). It really is best to look at a wide range of sizes if you can, and maybe a single-sex option too. They are all really impressive, and you never know what you might find that appeals to your child. DS went in thinking he wanted big, and then was so impressed by SAS that we added some more smaller schools to our list at the last minute. We almost didn’t look at Milton because of the 50% day student aspect, but that ended up being a positive for DS as it made the school feel less traditional and preppy. So I would just keep an open mind and cast a wide net, as everyone says here. Good luck!</p>
<p>After visiting a wide range of schools, I was somewhat surprised to see many nice, modest kids at acronym schools (who I’m sure are top scholars/athletes/artists) and also to find many proud kids at non-acronym schools (who I felt that they lacked modesty.) During TAing at several grad schools, I noticed that there are a lot of small-pond full-of-themselves undergrad kids at non-top40 schools. At top10 schools, students tended to be modest perhaps after traumatically experiencing what Sue22 did. I wouldn’t want my kids to fall at the bottom of BS but I do want them to learn their limits and not be praised all the time. It’s difficult to find that balance, I’m sure.</p>
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<p>Yes, if there’s a valuable lesson that I’ve learned from my time here, it’s how much I really suck, even despite being in the top decile of the class. There are just so many amazing, accomplished people around. </p>
<p>Ironically, my experience here has actually steered me away from the most vaulted Ivies comes college application. I’m not sure whether I want to be surrounded and beaten down by over-the-top achievers again.</p>
<p>The question then is … Is it better to have that humbling experience 1) during high school at a top BS? 2) at a top college coming from a local high school? or 3) Never in life? going from a small pond HS to a small pond College and keep the somewhat-unwarranted confidence?</p>
<p>Just a note that you can feel very humbled at a sub “top 10” school. I know my daughter has felt that way at SAS…</p>
<p>I think skipping over the acronym schools just because of their prestige or reputation just adds to their mystique. Check out the schools that meet your needs, be they acronym or not, and apply to the ones that appeal for whatever reason. </p>
<p>@MBV: You have experienced some toughest challenges in your academic life. Moving forward, you will no doubt still need to work hard but rest assured you are a lot better equipped to handle similar challenges you may encounter in competitive colleges. From what I gathered, it’s not going get much tougher, if at all, than what you have gone through in your competitive BS. Think of it this way. There are certainly shortcuts in life, but by and large to most people, life is the balancing act of give and take. You know why it’s called a “prep” school now…</p>
<p>^^academically, SAS is right up there with the bigger names like Taft and Loomis, possibly minus the recruited athletes. Sometimes that might just be the right amount of challenge and competition that some 16-year-old kids truly need. I think the question here is more about less academically challenging schools (Avon Old Farms, T-Pawling, Pomfret, Gunnery, The Hill School) versus more competitive schools. </p>