My 9th grade daughter is having a difficult decision deciding whether to participate in her school’s AP Capstone program (AP Research and AP Seminar (10th and 11th grade) or perhaps do an outside research project. Her HS counselor is not so great and of course recommends all students that are qualified participate in the school’s AP Capstone program. A senior who dreams of being accepted to an Ivy this year told her not to do AP Capstone through school and instead to do it through a separate company (online) so as not to “use up” the AP’s slotted for 10th and 11th grades.
Her HS allows 10th graders to take only 2 AP courses. 11th graders can take 4 Max AP courses and 12th graders can take 4 max AP courses. The remainder of the courses offered can (and likely will) be honors for her.
I believe her 10th grade will look like the following:
Honors English
Honors Pre-Calculus
Honors Spanish 3
Honors Chemistry
AP World History???
AP Research/Seminar (whichever one is for 10th grade)
Theology (Req’d for school)
Should she participate in the AP Capstone 2 year program through school or should she use an outside research program to do it separately? Please help!
She’ll learn great skills, and many say it’s their favorite class. It helped my social science daughter immensely in college - the skills gained.
It doesn’t always transfer to college credit.
It will not preclude one from any school and the ability to take 2 APs next and 4 in the following two years is fine too.
Outside - hmmm noooooo
Too much pressure - don’t dream of anything but doing well. When she gets to selection time, she’ll develop a list for her and nothing will be off the table based on the schedule you are showing.
Theology so a religious school ? Too bad the counseling stinks.
What would she use the schedule space for if she did not take AP seminar and research?
Religious schools are not necessarily academically elite, and college prep counseling may lean toward colleges of the same religion relative to top-whatever colleges.
Yes, I have seen that the school loves to promote religious affiliated colleges! We are NOT religious and she received a hefty scholarship to attend. Hence, why we are there. They do send some Ivies and other highly ranked colleges as well the UCs so the matriculation seems pretty good. However, she is my oldest and this is alllllll so different than when I attended college!
I believe she would be giving up some elective AP options by taking Capstone but I’m not exactly sure. She took Psychology and Sociology at a community college the summer between 8-9th grade just to learn so she has no need to take AP Psych or AP Sociology in school, right? I think she would be giving up potential AP classes like Comp Sci, Art?? Not sure what other AP Electives there are???
Looks like you and she should check what the school offers in terms of other courses that she may be interested in, because the choice to take AP seminar/research does depend on what the alternative options are.
There is AP psychology but not AP sociology. But if she has college credit, those may transfer to whatever college she matriculates to. Note that when applying to colleges, they will want to know about college courses and grades as well as high school courses and grades.
If you are in California, note that UCs and CSUs require a year of visual or performing arts for frosh admission.
She’ll have another AP in 10th and 3 others in 11th and 4 others in 12th.
What type of major do you think?
In the end, within reason of fulfilling requirements, take what you are interested in . The classes are really good for social science majors.
If you are in CA, you will have ample opportunities for college based on budget, both in and out of state. You also have access to WUE schools, etc. but it’s a bit early to focus on a specific name.
There’s no reason not to take the Capstone sequence though unless she’s going to become an engineer or accountant, etc.
You can have no APs and get into great colleges and she’ll have plenty.
Thanks. I think she’s just trying to figure out what she likes right now. She also plays a varsity sport (two school sports actually, one is not varsity though) and wants to continue that for the next 3.5 years. I just don’t want her to overload herself and burn out!!!
AP Seminar is geared as a sophomore English class. At our high school it replaced the advanced sophomore English class. My older son had the same teacher before Seminar was a thing, and his English class and the AP Seminar class were very similar.
So Then junior year the advanced kids take AP English and a few boys will take AP Research as an elective.
So at least at our private school 80 boys may take AP Seminar but only a dozen or so will take Research - but those other kids are probably taking 4-5 other AP classes.
If you go on the College Board website that is how they push it. It was created for that purpose.
But my point was at our private school the top kids who used to take Adv English 201 and now take AP Seminar do pretty much the same thing. Its all semantics but I do remember that the teacher wasn’t allowed to give as much feedback on papers in Seminar.
The college board but not necessarily the universities - that’s a big difference. I’d say buyer beware but the 3rd link below is pretty interesting.
If the school is doing it, I’m sure they’ve cleared it - but I think that’s a huge risk - but i’m an outsider. I’ve only seen it as an additional class.
Since tens of thousands of high school sophomores are taking AP Seminar as their English class I think colleges are pretty familiar with it.
But I think you are assuming there is some choice in the matter with the student. At half the high schools that offer AP Seminar the class is offered as the English class for advanced sophomores. The other option would be the student would take a lower-level English class, which no one would recommend.
We’ve had dozens of kids go off to excellent colleges over the years and no one has questioned this.
BTW - I also think College Board is a racket and it drives me bonkers how they keep creating new classes as to generate even more revenue.
Actually, it wasn’t. Capstone was created for 11th and 12th graders. Later, the CB decided to retcon.
What the CB wants is irrelevant. What matters is how colleges view it. The CB also pushes AP Psych as a science and AP Precalculus and AP Business Studies as deserving of college credit. Few universities follow that “guidance.”
I am no defender of College Board- but I think it’s important to recognize that what drives someone bonkers if their kids are at a high performing HS with strong teachers who are capable of creating their own innovative and interesting curricula, and who get support from the administration to do that-- and support professional development district-wide…
is NOT what parents whose kids are stuck in low performing schools are experiencing. For many of them, the College Board/AP designation might be the ONLY way their kids can get even a taste of academic rigor. If your kids are in an affluent district or a test-entry magnet program, it’s very fashionable to decry “teaching to the test” with a standardized reading list and a grading rubric.
But in a HS where the senior English choices are the AP English, “teach to the test” option or take a year long “Yearbook for credit” (i.e. getting HS credit for learning to cut and paste copy from last year’s yearbook), I think AP can be a lifesaver for some kids.
Sure- AP Psych is a waste of time in a HS where the social studies or science faculty have degrees in their subject area and can create a much more rigorous curriculum. But that is NOT every HS, and to criticize the College Board for trying to create something standardized which even a non-subject matter credentialed teacher can capably teach- I dunno.
I’ve got friends who teach in low income towns. The lone AP Physics teacher retires, and the district faces a choice- cancel physics, tap the next-best thing (a bio teacher who took a physics class in college, so she can “follow along” the AP curriculum) or just continue to advertise and interview for the next three years until they luck into a retired engineer who decides to go back to work and wants the job. But let’s not pretend that the ace AP qualified teachers are clamoring to teach in Camden New Jersey.
It can be a revenue generator AND a good thing at the same time.
Maybe college admissions officers are perfectly knowledgeable and accepting of the concept that high-performing sophomores are taking a class titled AP Seminar as their English class.
What are you expecting parents and students to do if their school is using Seminar as the sophomore class for those top students? If the top private schools in the state are going that route, then maybe the school knows what it is doing.
Again, as I stated twice, our school does it (like thousands of other schools) and it is virtually the same class as the previous Adv. English just with a different title.
I don’t see the connection with AP Pre Calc and AP Seminar. AP Pre Calc is a math class that has clear perimeters with what is covered while AP Seminar, in my opinion, can be incorporated into any English department and molded how the school wishes the class to be taught. Interestingly at our school AP Pre Calc is not taken by the top students who instead take a combo Alg 2/Precalc soph year. Now I do wonder if current parents are putting pressure on the school to change it up somehow since heaven forbid their student miss out on another AP class.
Of course there are benefits of College Board, and the fact that I mentioned their desire to generate revenue does not mean there are no benefits to its existence. I was not giving a well rounded argument on the pros and cons of the College Board which we could spend all day on that one!
If the top students are taking AP seminar as their 10th grade English, then many college AOs will accept AP seminar as an english class (not saying they will give credit for a test score of X.) But…they might not see that school’s rigor as equal to or higher than certain other schools (I expect how college AOs view this varies.)
I would let her take AP research and AP capstone if she wants to. It sounds like the top students will take AP research as their 10th grade english…but that doesn’t mean they have to take AP Capstone. She should again only take AP Capstone if she wants to, and to complicate things if highly rejective schools will be on her list she does have to understand if she would be giving up a core subject AP course to take AP Capstone. She should take four years in each of the five core subject areas.
Or maybe an AO would think that AP Seminar taught by the English department is more rigorous than the former English 201. There is certainly more writing! But kids are still reading novels, having weekly vocab, writing 5 paragraph essays and all the rest of the typical English.
Many parents at our school were concerned in 2022 with the class changing to AP Seminar and that it would be more difficult than the previous English 201. As it turned out, it was about the same rigor.
It looks like the OP’s student is considering AP seminar in addition to honors English, not in substitution. So if she takes AP seminar, that would be either an additional English elective or an additional unclassified academic elective, but would not risk being deficient in English courses.