But but but - I’m a CA kid with solid numbers (1520 SAT, 3.87 UW GPA). I’ve got decent but not world-changing ECs. I’m just a normal kid who does normal stuff. I know it’s on me that I didn’t do more resume building. But it’s distressing to know how slim my chances are in my home state university system, even though I truly believe I’m good “college material.” I’m just fortunate that my family can afford to send me to equivalent schools I can apply to out of state.
By “home state university system” do you mean just UCLA and UCB? I checked your chance me thread, and from @Gumbymom’s post, it appeared to me that you have decent chances in your desired major at many of the UCs (with your GPA in the mid 50% range, and admit rates 32-60% in the best fitting majors) and that is not even counting the CSUs.
UC admission is also holistic; you got some very good advice from @lkg4answers about your PIQs and activities. You don’t need the world’s most impressive ECs, but you need to write effectively about what you have.
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There are several UCs where you’d have a solid chance - UCSC, UCR, UCM - and UCD could definitely be in play depending on intended major. Maybe more. And there are probably at least a dozen CSUs well within your reach. Or more. And, if nothing else, you do a CC for two years than transfer, or even TAG, to a UC, if that’s the goal. Every single student in California has options. You have MANY options.
That is simply untrue. Unless you define your “home state university system” as a few highly rejective UCs. And the point of this post is that there are so many great state universities, and very many are well within your reach.
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Listen - I fully understand that I have lots of options and I know kids can get a great education at schools beyond flagship universities. But when I “chance” myself at flagship schools outside CA (e.g., Washington, Wisconsin) my chances are significantly better even OOS than they are at my in-state flagship universities. And I hope you guys can see how that feels frustrating. But really I know I’ve got many, many great options and I’m grateful for that.
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It’s a numbers thing. California is the most populous state in the US. We simply can’t fit the entire population of entering college freshman (and transfer students) into two campuses, even if very many of them are deserving.
Which schools do you count as CA flagship universities? Arguably we have at least 6 UC “flagships,” if not more.
Here are some US News National Universities rankings after UCLA and UCB:
29. UC San Diego
33 (tie). UC Davis
33 (tie). UC Irvine
39 (tie). UC Santa Barbara
39 (tie). U Wisconsin Madison
46 (tie). U Washington
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Exactly.
California has something like 6.5X the population of Wisconsin. But UC Berkeley’s undergrad program is not 6.5X the size of UW Madison’s, it is actually right around the same size. So you would need something like 6 or 7 UC undergrad campuses the size of UC Berkeley to reach proportionality with just Wisconsin’s Madison campus–and hey, look at that!
I think in substance, this means kids in California are not worse off than kids in Wisconsin when it comes to the availability of highly resourced public colleges. In fact, once might even suggest it is nice they may get some choice of campus (not always, but sometimes).
However, if it is important to you that you be able to say you got into the top-ranked, or maybe one of the two top-ranked colleges, in your state, then California is indeed not a great place for kids (or parents) who want to be able to say that.
And I don’t mean to be dismissive of anyone feeling that, but the path out is to realize that basically yes, you really do have more flagship-level campuses than just two. And in the long run, that is what is going to matter, the actual substance of where you go to college.
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You would get into most CSUs pretty much automatically if you are not applying for nursing or pre-nursing.
With a 3.87 unweighted GPA, you probably would get into at least some UCs.
But others can help you better if you recalculated your GPAs for UC (see GPA Calculator for the University of California – RogerHub ) and indicated your majors of interest.
Theoretically, all nine UCs are “flagships”.
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I don’t think they’re slim at all!! We don’t know your rigor, etc. but I am sure there are UCs and / or CSUs out there for you - as in multiple.
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Thanks all. I really didn’t mean to highjack this celebratory thread. Apologies to OP and apologies for sticking my nose into the grown-up table discussion LOL. I know I’ll have great options and I’m grateful for them. My folks went to solid state universities (not in CA, not “flagship”) and show me every day why the race for “prestige” is stupid. We Californians definitely have a fleet of highly capable ships and hopefully I’ll be on one of them. Realistically though - “we have multiple flagships” … tell that to employers, law schools, med schools, grad schools, etc. The numbers don’t lie. But diligence and open doors will get a kid where they need to go even if the path isn’t a straight arrow! (Whew - really mixing metaphors here).
So anyway - back to celebrating. We CA students definitely do have many, many great schools and vast opportunities in our state! And incidentally that extends into our quite amazing (though routinely bashed) public K-12 systems.
Thank you for your optimistic message. It’s a great reminder
Point taken
These are great resources. Thank you!
It’s a complicated situation from a kid’s POV when all they hear, all the time, every day is that this moment will define the doors that will stay open and the doors that will close. So “important to you to be able to say” feels a little unfair. That said - I agree with the spirit of your message and fully believe I will study hard at an excellent school and have a good and fulfilling career some day as a useful adult!
I do see your point and appreciate the reminder.
It is a numbers thing and I get that. I heard an analysis the other day on NPR questioning why UCB and UCLA haven’t expanded their enrollment more to address the increase in population and I felt a little wistful. But as others have said - no doubt there are many great options at many excellent schools. I just have to cover my ears and tune out the doomsayers shouting about “lost opportunity” and “closed doors.”
Going to school B vs A is not a lost opportunity.
Going to school, studying and doing nothing else to enhance your experience is a lost opportunity.
Most every school - whether Berkeley or Bakersfield has loads of opportunities - but they have to be grabbed by the student.
Doors open through you - just like at a restaurant or retail store. If you don’t open it, you’ll face plant. The doors at Kohls and Nordstrom open the same way - just like Berkeley and Bakersfield. Make sure you open the door!!
Kids choose safeties over reaches every day. Many ‘safety’ grads are the bosses of reach grads.
The ball will be in your court when you arrive on campus.
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I imagine budget reasons in part. To add more students, they have to hire more faculty and staff at a time when the state budget doesn’t seem to be keeping up with increased costs. They used to make up for the shortfall by accepting more out of state and international students who are full pay, but the state has put a cap on the number of non-state students the UC campuses can accept.
For UCB there is also the housing issue - they university can’t house the students it already has. They have freshman being assigned to lounges because there aren’t enough dorm rooms for everyone and after freshman year you are generally on your own and at the mercy of the local housing market, which is tough for students on a tight budget. So that makes it tough.
There also isn’t really anyway to enlarge the campus significantly in order to accommodate more students. They are currently building a new undergrad academic building, but almost every square inch of campus is occupied already. There isn’t much room for expansion.
Maybe these problems could be solved, but they cost money. Of course, the issue of university budgets is a whole 'nother can of worms.
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It is a lot easier to expand capacity in vacant land in Merced than it is to expand capacity in built up areas of Berkeley and Los Angeles.
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