<p>We put 2 kids through private school and were exposed to many teachers at several different schools. My son had a math teacher in 6th grade who happened to be very senior and a respected member of the faculty. He was a terrible teacher and discouraged kids who had been strong math students. Son also had a calculus teacher senior year (department head) who was not a good teacher and an AP Stat teacher who completely bombed at teaching the course (her first time teaching it). Daughter had a bad teacher at Interlochen for French III. Just about every other teacher they had throughout school has been really good. It seemed to me that the teachers, for the most part, were passionate about their jobs and really cared about the kids. This was especially true at Interlochen (D’s last school) and my son’s last boarding school. Because of this, we never questioned the money we were spending or the value of the educational experience.</p>
<p>wharfrat, but what bothers me is that teachers like you are not rewarded in a tangible manner. They do burn out, and the ones who will go the “extra mile” are the same ones that are asked again and again to cover all the numerous activities that are necessary to help make a better school. I would like to see a system where teachers like yourself are rewarded. </p>
<p>Yes, some are nearing the end of their careers are do not have the energy for the extra time or have family commitments. But just as in other fields, they should have the option not to put in overtime hours, but also not expect the same financial payback as those that do.</p>
<p>I hope I am making sense. I do know teachers like you describe–very good instructors, but not doing the “extras” and that is fine–but it is also different from those who are not good teachers but who have hung in long enough to reach tenure and then know that they really don’t have to even try.</p>
<p>"I would like to see a system where teachers like yourself are rewarded. " </p>
<p>I think wharf might just like a system where they are left alone by administrators and personal agenda driven people who want to create a system where rewards and what is rewarded varies year to year, month to month depending on who is doing the judging. </p>
<p>Most teachers just want to teach, not deal with the politics of the job. A merit based system is only fair if the parameters and materials are consistent. By materials I mean students and the parameters set by mutual agreement… </p>
<p>AFTER ALL IF YOU ALL THINK ABOUT THE BENEFITS OF MERIT PAY… WOULD YOU STILL SUPPORT IT IF IT WAS “I” THAT DECIDED RAISES??? 
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<p>Works both ways, not just yours. There’s people who want to take away and their’s people who want to add money to a teacher’s wallet. What happens if the “decider” (not GW) decides differently than you’d like? would you still support it? </p>
<p>What happens if a teacher you despise gets a big raise cause the evaluators love him? Would you still support it? Would you consider it fair? Should only the educators we “like” be entitled to raises?</p>
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<p>I don’t do any of these things because of potential rewards, but rather because I enjoy doing them. I do not feel deserving of any extra recognition or compensation because I do them. I do receive a small stipend for serving as Dept. Chair but I would do it without the compensation. To piggy back on Opie’s statement I serve as a mentor to a new teacher. I am offered a stipend for that but turned it down. Why? Because if I accept the stipend I have to go to extra workshops, seminars, etc. I don’t mind mentoring a new teacher. I’ll gladly do it for free if it keeps me out of another meeting.</p>
<p>I’ve got mixed feelings about merit raises. One of my son’s best teachers efforts were sabotaged by having too many kids with emotional difficulties stuck in his classroom. He was great with them, but the other kids really suffered from the lack of attention. Another teacher was beloved by the principal, but my older son hated her so much (for justifiable reasons I thought) that I had to ask the principal not to give her to my younger son. She might well have thought she was doing me a favor by giving her to me. I certainly knew plenty of parents who thought she was the bees knees.</p>
<p>I think tenure has a place, but of course there has to be a reasonable system to get rid of teachers who were fine when they were given tenure, but no longer are.</p>
<p>PS I had several rotten teachers in private school, including at least one who had been there forever.</p>
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<p>Also, I have noticed for years, that many teachers also tutor outside of school. They run out, and then tutor several days/week to supplement their income. A couple of our hs teachers also teach some college/community college night classes to supplement income. Many tutors in our area were charging $60/hour two years ago for private tutoring (this is the last time I checked into it). We are in a high cost of living area. Some just run over to a brand name “learning center” to tutor students. Another teacher that I know runs her own college counseling service after school. One social worker for another school district ran over to another school district near our area to coach a hs sport. He told me that he was picking up another 10,000 to do so, and that was going back at least 5-10 years ago. In addition he runs a private counseling service on the side.</p>
<p>I think it’s somewhat of a myth to say that tenured teachers cannot be fired short of some criminal or moral misdeed. Granted, it isn’t as easy to dismiss a tenured teacher as it is one who is not tenured, as it should be. Still, at least in our school system there is a process by which principals can have a tenured teacher removed. It requires documentation and it requires principals justify their decision, as it should. Still removing a tenured teacher is far from impossible.</p>
<p>I will say that in my state we do not have traditional teacher’s unions because of state law. The power of our associations is greatly limited as a result. I realize this is not the case in every state. Even so, to blame unions and tenure doesn’t paint the entire picture. Often it is principals and other administrators who for whatever the reason do not follow through on their documentation of teachers who are not performing. Is that the fault of the teacher or the union? In my opinion it is not.</p>
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<p>How expensive is the process to the school district?</p>
<p>Not terribly expensive at all. Basically it involves principals documenting through the evaluation process that the teacher’s performance is unsatisfactory the putting the teacher on a specific Action Plan. The second year the principal would have to document that the teacher did not implement the Action plan and/or perform in a satisfactory manner and give the teacher a second unsatisfactory evaluation with recommendation for dismissal.</p>
<p>Might the principal have to defend their evaluation? Sure. Should they have to? Absolutely.</p>
<p>So, what is the answer? How do “we” attract the people into education that will end up being the motivational, committed educators? How do we keep them there and not lose them to the private sector (not private education–but business and other fields)? How do we reward outstanding teachers–yes, I realize that those individuals to a one are outstanding because they are doing what they love, but everyone deserves some kind of pat on the back for a job well done beyond the self-satisfaction.</p>
<p>Another reason I have little sympathy for principals not removing poor teachers is that it’s very rare that a tenured teacher became poor after gaining tenure. I know it happens but for the most part an unsatisfactory tenured teacher was an unsatisfactory untenured teacher.</p>
<p>Teachers without tenure may be dismissed very easily. Why didn’t the principal remove them then?</p>
<p>^^^I have also wondered about this. Do they think the teacher will develop? Or is it more a case of the teacher shortage? Don’t know if there is a shortage nationally, but there certainly is in our area.</p>
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<p>I think the answer is to respect teachers and tell them once in a while that you appreciate what they are doing. Too often the only parents teachers hear from are the ones who are complaining and criticizing them. </p>
<p>Certainly increasing teacher salaries would be welcome, but I for one do not believe merit pay is the answer. The entire process would be too subjective.
You can’t base it on test scores because there is only so much that we as teachers can do to control them.</p>
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<p>I think that the teacher shortage absolutely plays a role in this. Especially in math, science, and other critical needs areas. (Foreign language, Special Ed)</p>
<p>I think another is that many principals are reluctant to tell a kid who has invested 4-5 years and tens of thousands of dollars in their education to become a teacher that they need to find another career. (This opens up a whole new set of issues with regard to teacher training and colleges of education)</p>
<p>“I think the answer is to respect teachers and tell them once in a while that you appreciate what they are doing”</p>
<p>Cookies and a coffe gift card work really well. </p>
<p>I am married to around 30 years elementary teacher. She gets cookies, fudge and other nice things at christmas. Do you know who doesn’t? Jr high and HS teachers. When my D brought homemade cookies and christmas tea to her HS teachers, several just about started to cry. Something to think about.</p>
<p>The thank you’s go along way. This fall my wife found under her door a note from a student who is in an engineering graduate program. He was taking his wife around his “old” school and saw my wife’s name on a classroom. He wrote a nice note, telling her how she still remembers her 15 years later and informs her on what has happened in his life and thanks her for 3rd grade. </p>
<p>She has parents who are so excited for their kids to have the same teacher they did. This stuff makes up for some others who are upset that “little Billy” has too much home work and “why do we need to buy books for home?”</p>
<p>So if you wonder why I stick up for teachers, I’ve seen what happens good and bad for close to 30 years. I’ve listened to what each day has been like good and bad. And while we wish everyday was good, sometimes they aren’t.</p>
<p>My older D still emails her teacher that she had for 3rd4th& 5th gd- in fact a few years ago she and a friend went( with the teacher) and had a beer together, before her friend went off to Kazhakstan to teach English.</p>
<p>She was a great teacher & I was sorry that my younger daughter didn’t have her ( this was @ a private school- I was even sorrier when she was compared to the teachers that she * did* end up having)</p>
<p>I started a thread a while ago asking about what people gave teachers & it reminded me of these carob things I made one of my junior high teachers-ROFLAO- now I give Starbucks cards</p>
<p>our high school is very supportive of teachers & staff- we not only have a small grants program- through which the PTA funds up to $15,000 of teacher grants for the school( twice a year), but we have parents adopt new teachers, bringing them lattes & scones and gift certificates for restaurants.
We also have an informal program- where teachers ask for various supplies- I just bought 9 copies of a Sherman Alexie novel for a LA class-for example.
Virtually all the schools we have been involved with have room parents, who coordinate volunteers to help in and out of the classroom- through graduation.
We are barely middle income, but we are still able to help- and it helps that there are parents who have deeper pockets.
It also helps that the teachers are appreciative.</p>
<p>At a former ( public school) when parents gave of their time and money- often to the point of taking a vacation day so they could drive on fieldtrips-and using their own money to host weekly teacher lunches, it was grudgingly acknowledged by some teachers and it was even mentioned that it wasn’t enough. There were of course teachers who were appreciative- but those were usually the specialist teachers- who didn’t even use the volunteers as much as the classroom teachers did.</p>
<p>When I see teachers like the one my younger daughter had for 5th grade, making $60,000 a year not counting benefits for 182 days of work, which was more than many of the parents made in 250 days of work- expecting us to furnish her with gadgets for her classroom ( like digital video cameras) which were then not even used- it takes away my desire to show my support.</p>
<p>When teachers are appreciative however, even a little, it makes it so much easier to keep helping out. :)</p>