<p>i realize this question may seem silly, but in researching affirmative action, i came across many pro-AA people who justify their beliefs because URMs are discriminated against. now, asians are DISadvantaged in college admissions, but they are minorities. they are discriminated against… right? i mean, if an employer sees two equally qualified applicants, one asian one caucasian, he would most likely choose the white one… right?</p>
<p>very confused</p>
<p>It really depends, from my experience reading about jobs, entry level at least, certain companies want to project specific images. Now if it’s all “find the cheapest labor” like fast food does, you see hispanics <em>everywhere</em>. </p>
<p>Then you move to sales and everything changes completely. Companies have images they want to maintain so they hire according to that. So many sales jobs will be looking for people who look professional, have great speech and language skills, are intelligent (or at least look it), good looking (not a requirement, but it’s looked for, and that brings in the whole subject of height advantages in the business world, and great social skills. </p>
<p>This could sound racist, but I’m just being completely objective. With those traits, anyone can potentially have them, but for the most part middle to upper class white males and females will be the most desired, with americanized asians coming in next (ones who were born here and basically speak and interact like an average american, instead of the introverted, choppy english of immigrants), and then hispanics or blacks, with ones who are the most professional looking valued above the rest.</p>
<p>So when it comes to asians, I know PLENTY who grew up here, are outgoing, and would be chosen at the same level as whites. And again, this is just for “visible” positions, as often you’ll find the back office people are chosen completely on who wants to do the job and who can do it best.</p>
<p>It could just be where I live and have seen, but many people are just a lot more comfortable with someone they can relate to and like better, and with the older population segments which can still be quite racist in addition to primarily white male management, that’s just the type of breakdown you’ll find for visible positions.</p>
<p>If anyone doesn’t believe me, tell me the first image that comes to mind for a corporate manager, engineer, computer technician, sales rep (primarily mid to upper tier establishments, as the smaller or less expensive you go, the more diversity you’ll see, and with stores that go with “lowest possible cost for them” type employees), and then compare with who you find working as merchandising/stock or fast food style jobs.</p>
<p>The point is, if it were left up to the employer, many business would carefully choose the profile they prefer, and most of the time it would be the professional type which is predominantly white. Then you come to civil rights and equal opportunity, which is basically what AA is trying to do. Hispanics and African-Americans are the ones who suffer most from discrimination so they’re the ones who are normally seen as minorities that benefit. </p>
<p>From what I’ve seen, asians really don’t have much problem in college OR in the job sector. People think of them as intelligent, hardworking, and pretty receptive to leadership. They don’t really need AA any more than caucasians (if we want to be PC, which is pretty dumb in itself).</p>
<p>—Before I forget, don’t kill me for not saying blacks and hispanics can be on the same level as whites or asians, because they most definately can. I’m simply stating that there are MORE whites and asians who happen to have the desired traits.</p>
<p>There is a glass ceiling in companies where Asians seldom breach. It is at the very highest eschelon. Sure there are Asians in the boardroom, but most are perceived at being good at the technical, mid-level, non-strategic positions. Some of it is culture and personality types that is slowly changing as new generation of Asians with more diverse backgrounds and interests join the work force. Take more non-traditional majors, find different paths to success, operate out of your comfort zone, I encourage my young relatives.</p>
<p>A cloud of prejudice goes up…</p>
<p>Yes Life hates Asians, all Asians are doomed to fail, why are you even asking?</p>
<p>I think OP is trying to understand the issues Asians faced and try to have a serious discussion here.</p>
<p>You can check the OPTIONAL box on your college application giving your ethnicity or NOT. No they are not discriminated against in college admissions but YES, international students are discriminated against in admissions. All things in moderation, an equal balance in all .</p>
<p>One of the troubling issues one of my asian friends has talked about is the subtle emasculation of Asian men in our society. Some facets of our culture venerate men who are tall, athletic, outgoing, assertive, etc. But the image of most Asian men (accurate or not) tends to be otherwise. The stereotype leans more towards deferential, quiet, mannerly, bookish, and slight of build. Other than the occasional kung fu @ss-kicking, Asian men are not credited with the qualities that are considered “manly” or “powerful.”</p>
<p>He wasn’t weeping daily into his cornflakes about it or anything; and he’s quite successful and leads a great life, but it was something he has reflected on as an Asian man raising an Asian son. I found the discussion of it very thought-provoking. Until he mentioned it I wasn’t aware of how I regarded Asian men (I guess I’d given more thought to the stereotypes about Asian woman).</p>
<p>I don’t think that Asians are discriminated against at all in the academic field. If anything, the expectations of their performance is higher and therefore they are more likely to get the jobs or be admitted. </p>
<p>If there is an “issue” , it could be with citizenship. But American Asians have a leg up, in my opinion.</p>
<p>If there is a citizenship issue, the American citizen will get the leg up no matter what race, as the way it should be.</p>
<p>Yes they are. The discrimination also comes from other groups as well as from the groups/ethnicity within the Asian community. </p>
<p>We are long way from valuing people for being humans.</p>
<p>
Hoedown, you made a good point. My take on this, while I don’t want to make a conscious effort to fit someone else’s ideal, there is nothing wrong in working out, toning up your body. That’s something I want to do more of. </p>
<p>I will mentioned that 2nd generation Asians (native borned) tend to be slightly taller and bigger. I think it is inevitable that one is judged on how one looks, to a degree, until that person breaks the mold, or reinforces the stereotype.</p>
<p>I don’t think Asians have advantages in college admissions (although I am not Asian so I don’t know for sure), but I think they are considered a minority when applying for jobs.</p>
<p>Many companies now encourage management to hire qualified minorities as new employees, so Asians should have an advantage, especially since they are generally considered hard-working and intelligent.</p>
<p>Asians have disadvantage in college admission, not advantage. I might say they are the most disadvantaged group applying for colleges.</p>
<p>The high representation in schools only reflects harder working to overcome that disadvantage.</p>
<p>Geesh,</p>
<p>Can we really have a discussion about “Asians”? Talk about oversweeping generalizations. Consider the subsegments:</p>
<ul>
<li><p>by nationality, Chinese, Korean Japanese, Southeast Asian (which itself is too general, except that for years vietnamese far outnumbered thias, cambodians etc., except for the odd Hmong in Minneapolis…)</p></li>
<li><p>By background: Upper class chinese versus Montagnard, for instance.</p></li>
<li><p>By time. What does a 4th gen Californian of chinese descent have in common with someone just in from Singapore?</p></li>
</ul>
<p>Need I go on?</p>
<p>I do agree that colleges want to shape classes in certain ways, and if a college gets a reputation of being too asian, that can be a negative. But are we not really talking about one small segment of the overall asian experience, the relatively recent middle class/upper class migrants and their descendants?</p>
<p>“Asians have disadvantage in college admission, not advantage. I might say they are the most disadvantaged group applying for colleges.”</p>
<p>… which is amply demonstrated by the ratio between admissions and the population percentage of American Asians. Forgive the sarcasm, but would it not be pretty hard to be both the most over-represented minotity group and the most disadvantaged group … at the same time. Repeating the same myths ad nauseam will never elevate them to facts! </p>
<p>“if a college gets a reputation of being too asian, that can be a negative.” </p>
<p>This is absolutely true. Applicants should question the admission principles of any school that allow any ethnic group to be at double or triple our domestic population distribution. Diversity is wonderful, until the pendulum swings too far and a school becomes nothing like the image of the entire US. Too much forced “diversity” is as harmful as too little.</p>
<p>As strange as it seems, it is possible to be over-represented and disadvantaged at the same time.</p>
<p>From my vantage point in Southern Cal, at least through high school, there is higher propotion of Asian kids who work hard at their studies relative to those in other groups.</p>
<p>If you look at things such as math comeptitions, kids of Asain desecent participate in proportions far in excess of the general population.</p>
<p>Do you remember that thing in the news about the number of blacks at UCLA going down. What got lost in the news was that the number of whites had gone down far more (but as smaller %) and the number of Asains had shot way up over a 20 year span. While AA has been cut back at the UCs, a bigger reason for this has been the influx of Asains into California over the same period in time.</p>
<p>“As strange as it seems, it is possible to be over-represented and disadvantaged at the same time.”</p>
<p>There is a world of difference between no LONGER being advantaged and being the “most disadvantaged” group in admission. I am fully aware about the unabated claims of discrimination, and also aware of the absolute dearth of verifiable claims to support the allegations, as well as any meaningful legal challenges. I doubt the US is running out of lawyers willing to accept legal cases? The reality is that the claims of discrimination are old wives tales with a small occasional sprinkle of anecdotal evidence, but an ever present use of well chosen self serving and misleading statistics.</p>
<p>Well, I’d say that URMs are the most discriminated against. If they work hard to get beyond their socioeconomic levels, people at college and in the work world will constantly resent them and look down on them, as if they didn’t earn what they got, as if they got served everything on a silver platter AKA affirmative action…</p>
<p>I’d say we Asians have it pretty good compared to them.</p>