are colleges racist?

[Hunt]

<p>Now, wait a minute. Here’s the OP’s post:

the questions a bit harsh however i do want to address this issue. how come acceptance rates for asians are low? do colleges have something against asians just cause they study hard to get into college?

I’m sorry, but I don’t read this as a complaint against affirmative action. It’s the same old claim that it’s harder for Asians to get into top colleges than it is for whites. And we discussed THAT issue for about a zillion pages in this thread–although efforts to muddy the waters by talking about URMs happened repeatedly.</p>

<p>If you want to talk about why seats at colleges should be taken away from black kids and given to Asian kids, have at it. I happen to think that’s a selfish and short-sighted view, but others see it differently. There’s little of interest to discuss. I just don’t want it to get mixed up with this idea that whites are stealing the seats of Asians–something for which I think there is little evidence.</p>

[IndianParent]

<p>

Now, wait a minute. Here’s the OP’s post:</p>

<p>Quote:
the questions a bit harsh however i do want to address this issue. how come acceptance rates for asians are low? do colleges have something against asians just cause they study hard to get into college?</p>

<p>I’m sorry, but I don’t read this as a complaint against affirmative action. It’s the same old claim that it’s harder for Asians to get into top colleges than it is for whites.

</p>

<p>I don’t see any mention of whites.</p>

<p>

I just don’t want it to get mixed up with this idea that whites are stealing the seats of Asians–something for which I think there is little evidence.

</p>

<p>There may or may not be evidence, but it is a political minefield that Asians would do best to stay out of. Nothing good can come out of that.</p>

[calimami]

<p>yeah. okay. so when it comes to whites it’s a “political minefield”, but black and brown kids are fair game (scapegoated). how cowardly.</p>

[IndianParent]

<p>

yeah. okay. so when it comes to whites it’s a “political minefield”, but black and brown kids are fair game (scapegoated). how cowardly.

</p>

<p>Don’t blame me, blame the race politics in the USA. I am just recommending that Asians play it like American politicians do. When in Rome …</p>

[xiggi]

<p>Speaking about the OP:</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/sat-preparation/1174405-did-college-board-lie-me.html#post12894730[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/sat-preparation/1174405-did-college-board-lie-me.html#post12894730&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>No love for the College Board!</p>

[Ghostt]

<p>

Don’t blame me, blame the race politics in the USA. I am just recommending that Asians play it like American politicians do. When in Rome …

</p>

<p>You acknowledge your own bias–focusing on black and Latino students while ignoring whites–but justify it with “the race politics in the USA”… and yet you call universities that practice affirmative action in college admissions racist.</p>

<p>The mind boggles.</p>

[calimami]

<p>xiggi: LOL! the last comment on that link was so cute!</p>

[johnwesley]

<p>Indianparent wrote:

Quote:
"Its probably not going to happen until URMs can maintain their current level of representation without preferences. Sorry…Asians may never hit 50%.</p>

<p>Although I support Affirmative Action for URMs…I don’t think Asians should have to racially classify themselves. They can be lumped in with Whites." </p>

<p>I would prefer not. If, for example, there was one box - White/Asian, and the name was hidden from the AdCom, Asians will start to displace Whites. That’s a political minefield. Nothing good can come out of that. There is enough support from conservative Whites to repeal AA. But even liberal Whites do not want to see a 50% Asian class composition, as evinced in this thread.

</p>

<p>Well, that’s a lot of assumptions stacked into one paragraph. Let’s take them one at a time:

If, for example, there was one box - White/Asian, and the name was hidden from the AdCom, Asians will start to displace Whites.

</p>

<p>Maybe, maybe not. I guess it all depends on whether you think Adcoms are practicing a kind of AA in favor of WHITES in the first place. It raises an interesting question: at what point might WHITE people become URMs themselves? </p>

<p>

That’s a political minefield.

</p>

<p>I know. And, why bother when…</p>

<p>

There is enough support from conservative Whites to repeal AA.

</p>

<p>Thank you, Indianparent for making clear what 50 years of civil rights legislation could not: conservative Whites have as much reason to be in favor of AA as Blacks.</p>

<p>

But even liberal Whites do not want to see a 50% Asian class composition, as evinced in this thread.

</p>

<p>So, the key thing is to attack AA (even though, admittedly, it won’t advance the numbers of seats that you want) because the next step is AA for Whites (if it isn’t already here) and preventing or attacking that directly would be a “political minefield”. Nicely played :)</p>

[sewhappy]

<p>I actually think the whole genesis of this thread and the seemingly endless dickering on it are, in themselves, an excellent testament for what is deeply wrong and dysfunctional about racial affirmative action. Call it what you want – it is still racism and it really is true that two wrongs . . . or millions of right meaning wrongs do not add up to a right.</p>

<p>That’s my view, pretty much, although I get swayed by those I respect who argue differently but in my gut that is what I believe.</p>

<p>The rather snarky attitude and rhetoric we are seeing from miffed Asians is what AA causes. If you preference one race, you inevitably disadvantage other races. It is meaningless to argue that the number for any race in gaining acceptance to these schools is miniscule. That only heightens the disconnect.</p>

<p>The developments in MIchigan could end up going to the Supreme Court and given the current composition of that body, we could very well see AA ended in that not very distant future. I truly doubt that would impact the position of URMs in this society in the slightest and I think it would overall improve racial relations.</p>

[tigerdad14]

<p>sewhappy, agreed.</p>

[mokusatsu]

<p>

@IndianParent

I believe that when AA is gone, Asians will rise to the normal level of student body composition as measured by talent - about 50%.

</p>

<p>

@IndianParent

Racism is the belief that there are inherent differences in people’s traits and capacities that are entirely due to their race

If you say so.</p>

[Shrinkrap]

<p>“Shrink-
You know that is one way to see it.”
Wait…WHAT is one way to see it? It’s on another page now… How did I see it?</p>

<p>“If you start telling me that the BIL must not have been under-privileged/needed AA or no longer identifies as such, I say, so change the preferences to pure SES.”</p>

<p>Didn’t mean that at all! I am not underprivileged and neither are my kids, but I think CC has opened my eyes to a whole 'nother universe! I think there are plenty of folks, privileged and unprivileged, who do not think much about affirmative action, and it doesn’t affect their child rearing, and this is often brought up as the downside of AA. I could be wrong, but it’s possible isn’t it? I am curious about the BIL’s perspective, and how come is it different from mine, and the black folks I know. </p>

<p>I suspect it is partly a function of where we live, who we socialize with. I think for example where Fab lives in Georgia, he comes across whole black communities, and maybe they go to private schools, and talk about affirmative action. I bet it’s different in Portland, and maybe in North Carolina. </p>

<p>I just want to know!</p>

<p>“But why wouldn’t you consider that SES might be more helpful, especially as the races mix, and also to tear down some misconceptions about aptitude that preference can support?”</p>

<p>Have you read any posts from me? I never said otheriwse really. I DID say I’m not sure how that will shake out, but as usual, I will be watching. Usually with my mouth shut! I have also said that if there is no cap to the value of SAT scores, I fear an “arms race” in which many otherwise “good enough” students will not be able to compete. No, i don’t know why. Sure, there will be those that can, but I see no problem “filling in” with a few of those “good enough” students, especially if they bring more money, more y chromosomes, or more perspective to the table. I would LOVE to meet the BIL at “the table”!</p>

<p>I would PAY for my kid to go to school with them! </p>

<p>Hey! I DID pay for my kid to go to school with them!</p>

<p>I think your BIL belongs at the table, even if he cant score 2300 on the SAT’s. Then maybe I could meet him, and he could tell me why AA is a problem in child rearing. </p>

<p>"there is no reason to be angry.</p>

<p>Do not push me away with arguments. Listen to all the sides."</p>

<p>Wow…did i seem angry? Did I seem to be arguing?</p>

[xiggi]

<p>

1. I actually think the whole genesis of this thread and the seemingly endless dickering on it are, in themselves, an excellent testament for what is deeply wrong and dysfunctional about racial affirmative action. Call it what you want – it is still racism and it really is true that two wrongs . . . or millions of right meaning wrongs do not add up to a right.</p>

<p>That’s my view, pretty much, although I get swayed by those I respect who argue differently but in my gut that is what I believe.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>The rather snarky attitude and rhetoric we are seeing from miffed Asians is what AA causes. If you preference one race, you inevitably disadvantage other races. It is meaningless to argue that the number for any race in gaining acceptance to these schools is miniscule. That only heightens the disconnect.</p></li>
<li><p>The developments in MIchigan could end up going to the Supreme Court and given the current composition of that body, we could very well see AA ended in that not very distant future. I truly doubt that would impact the position of URMs in this society in the slightest and I think it would overall improve racial relations.

</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Interestlngly but not suprisingly, I could not disagree more with the several components of the post. I added a few numbers to keep it simple. </p>

<ol>
<li><p>The AA system of racial preferences in college admission is hardly dysfunctional. Speaking about “testaments” it should be noted that all highly selective schools seem to find it justifiable and necessary, and as the case in Michigan demonstrated, are prepared to fight for maintaining the current system. Fwiw, isn’t clamoring for the removal of preferences for a certain group not a form of … racism? A more callous and reprehensible form of racism for that matter! </p></li>
<li><p>The rather snarky attitude and rhetoric is just that. Removing the preferences for blacks, latinos, and native americans would not temper the misguided notions of entitlement. And fwiw the rhetoric is not only snarky but hollow as there is not a shred of evidence that discrimination exists. The only thing that is established is that URM do have preference. The latter does not confirm the former does exist. </p></li>
<li><p>Removing or reducing the impact of AA in college admissions would do NOTHING to improve racial relations. Have you considered how trivial the admissions in a handful of highly selective colleges really is? What are we talking about here? That a few hundred Asians are displeased for not being accepted in EVERY school they’d like to get a fat envelope from? Do really think that boosting the admission rate of Asians by 25 or 50 percent would change anything to the current lamentations?</p></li>
</ol>

[woeishe]

<p>My cousin is black and he thinks that diversity based on skin color is bull. Apparently, different viewpoints, interests, and experiences make diversity, not color. Who would have thought it?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!</p>

[texaspg]

<p>woeishe - Are nt you black and have expressed the same opinion in this thread several times?</p>

[woeishe]

<p>Yep. I just wanted to show that I’m not the only black person who thinks that.</p>

[Shrinkrap]

<p>^^ And not too eloquently I might add! Your posts are not up to CC “par”, at least not for the parents forum. </p>

<p>I think you are saying that being black has not effected your experiences as a person. I think you are saying that being black does not effect the way you see yourself, nor the way others see you. Can you speak to how affirmative action affected your upbringing? Also, would you mind saying something about your environment? My kids grew up in a middle class community of mostly white, hispanic, and fewer Asian, mostly Korean and Filipino. They would say “racism” has not been a problem, but they still see their experience as different from their peers.</p>

[xiggi]

<p>

My cousin is black and he thinks that diversity based on skin color is bull.

</p>

<p>I am not black and I think that the preservation of AA is critical for blacks born in this country. Actually, I think it falls way short of what it should be.</p>

<p>How about that!</p>

[fabrizio]

<p>

The AA system of racial preferences in college admission is hardly dysfunctional.

</p>

<p>Pfft! For the two years studied in the Campus Learning and Life Project at Duke, it turned out that average family income from Latino students exceeded that of Asians, even though percentage-wise, more Asians came from families earning $100K or more per year. Granted, the income distribution of blacks was more even, but the average family income still exceeded $100K per year even though 63% of the black students in those two years came from families that earned less than that per year.</p>

<p>When Latinos, who are supposedly disadvantaged "URM"s, on average come from families that earn more than supposedly advantaged "ORM"s, I’d call the system dysfunctional.</p>

<p>

Fwiw, isn’t clamoring for the removal of preferences for a certain group not a form of … racism?

</p>

<p>Well, at least we know that the Sixth Court’s Judges aren’t the only ones out there who think treating everyone without regard to their racial classification counts as a form of racism. Logical reasoning at its finest!</p>

[Shrinkrap]

<p>^ Ah, and this is where the creating middle class part part of the discussion usually happens! I still think one $110K URM, plus one $50 K URM, can equal two $80 k URM’s, which is at least an economic step up from two $30 k URM’s, especially if we are talking about a family with two parents…and maybe even two “medium high SAT having URM parents”!</p>

<p>Did I say that out loud? Did that sound bad?</p>

<p>Not a stand alone reason for AA, but just throwing in an “under represented” perspective.</p>