<p>Barron’s</p>
<p>“Church projects, PTA projects, alumni clubs, other clubs.”</p>
<p>but isn’t there always an ALPHA dog to these groups? </p>
<p>The bull in the china shop? I’ve spent many years on volunteer boards and to be effective you rid yourself of the non-doers.</p>
<p>Maybe there is but unless you want to do all the work yourself you need to get some worker bees on board with you. I can’t kick somebody out of the car club because they don’t do what they said they would.</p>
<p>Bassdad, </p>
<p>This more or less is becoming a job justification situation. I am not trying intentionally to knock somebody’s career choice. I feel like I’ve put you on the defensive, I apologize. </p>
<p>However, please consider these counter points.</p>
<p>As I see it your daughter has the following choices:
<p>Is that what we’re paying tuition for?</p>
<p>2) Report the problem to the teacher and request their help.</p>
<p>Done, and grading was changed as well as groupings. </p>
<p>3) Request reassignment to a different team for the current project.</p>
<p>Next project, but prof also individualized grading.</p>
<p>4) Tough out the current assignment and request to be assigned to a different team in the future.</p>
<p>Done. </p>
<p>5) Report the problem to the school administration and request that they intervene.</p>
<p>Spoke with Advisor, Advisor spoke with prof and modifications were made.</p>
<p>6) Request a different teacher.</p>
<p>Not a realistic proposal. there is nothing “wrong” with the prof that would warrant the change. Also you are into the semester.</p>
<p>7) Attend a different school.</p>
<p>So we should forgo scholarships? </p>
<p>“workplace parallels”</p>
<p>Again whose? What if her choice is to be a sole propriator, self employed group of ONE? I too am a sole prop in the business world. </p>
<p>She followed my advice which was speak to the prof BEFORE any grades are given. That way, it can’t be called sour grapes. She explained her future and came to an agreement with the prof after the first. </p>
<p>Sometimes, we only see how it could be from one perspective our own. I can see where your coming from, but it is not a one size fits all situation.</p>
<p>“Maybe there is but unless you want to do all the work yourself you need to get some worker bees on board with you.”</p>
<p>Bingo! If everybody works, life is good.</p>
<p>“I can’t kick somebody out of the car club because they don’t do what they said they would.”</p>
<p>Would that be on the board? The boards I chaired the pres was given that power and I did exercise it a time or two, to both volunteers and paid employees. </p>
<p>I certainly wouldn’t kick someone out of membership of the car club, but they wouldn’t serve on the board either. </p>
<p>There are two perceptions of boardmembers ones who serve and ones who expect to be served. Get a group of people who serve, alot gets done.</p>
<p>I will throw out the group that involved my D. It was Calculus class and the prof would team them for the exams and your test was worth 80% and your partners scores were the other 20%. So you could have a perfect score and still get a C because the other people didn’t score as well. Your role as a member of the group was to check each other’s work prior to handing the exams in and if you found an error have the person correct it. If they chose not to make the correction, you lost points for their error, because you didn’t convince them to change their answer. </p>
<p>I really don’t know how that applies to the workplace. </p>
<p>The profs solution was put guys with her. She set the curve so when she checked their work and found errors, they listened. The prof also reduced dramatically the impact and then stopped doing it.</p>
<p>Opie, there is no need to apologize. I do not feel that I am either defending my own turf or trying to force a solution on anyone. I listed some options, all of which you have either considered or pursued. If someone needs the extra 0.02 points on the old GPA for a good reason, then they should go for it. I consider maintaining a scholarship, getting a job interview or getting into a grad school to be good reasons.</p>
<p>On the other hand, I have met more than my share of grade-grubbing whiners who think that a B is the end of the world and run to mommy or daddy at the least difficulty because they have never learned to fight their own battles. (I am not suggesting your daughter is one of them.) I think college is high time that my kids stand on their own two feet.</p>
<p>No, there is no board. There is a President and the usual officers. Then there are groups that run certain events–track days, autocross, tours, concours etc. Each group will have a chair and several helpers. If the guy who was in charge of finding the food vendor or the car checkers or the corner workers screws up the event is not as good as it should be. Sure you can ask them not to help next time but volunteers are hard to find these days and you get what you can.</p>
<p>“but volunteers are hard to find these days and you get what you can.”</p>
<p>isn’t that how typhoid Mary got her start? </p>
<p>Yea, I had those folks to when I ran a soccer program for 2,000 kids. And you’re right 5% do and 95% take in these groups. But you get the right people together…magic! </p>
<p>The dangerous "volunteers ", ya just try to make sure they help with things that aren’t critical to the event. I’ve ran tournaments to professional soccer (MLS vs A league) games on TV in our small town stadium with volunteers. Key workers do the key things.</p>
<p>“I consider maintaining a scholarship, getting a job interview or getting into a gad school to be good reasons.”</p>
<p>No worries. These are her worries for vet school. However, she is the original gental soul too. I have two opposites with my son, if he conflicted with people, he’d just work harder and show them in the classroom and the weight room. With my daughter, she’d worry about the other person feelings to the point of being ill. She only gets mad at me, which is good for the rest of the world.</p>
<p>Bassdad–sorry, totally misread your comment about books! Makes much more sense now! (And by “makes more sense” I mean I used more sense when i reread it; it made perfect sense the first time.) :)</p>
<p>Does anyone else think that schools emphasize group projects because employers say they want ‘team players’?</p>
<p>I think employers say they want people who will go along with whatever they are told to do (work overtime, weekends, take on impossible situations, distort the truth, etc.) The euphamism for this is ‘team player’. Schools overinterpret ‘team player’ to mean group member.</p>
<p>I agree with posters who think that teachers don’t manage these groups enough, especially at the grade school level. It’s more work for them in the classroom to insure that group members don’t sabatoge others’ work, torment low status members behind their backs, etc. I’m not sure superman/woman could adequately monitor several grade school groups simulaneously doing group projects.</p>
<p>The place in grade school for group projects is on the playing fields.</p>
<p>I don’t like group projects that cannot be completed mostly in class where I can monitor and guide the process (I am a high school teacher). </p>
<p>I never had a group project in college that I thought was worthwhile. Once, during my evening masters’ program, a prof assigned a group project that was a major part of the final course grade. Several people objected because of scheduling difficulties (most of us were employed, and many of us also had families of our own to care for), and the prof wouldn’t bend until I voiced my concern. I had a 90-mile commute each way to class twice a week. I left work and went straight to class and arrived home at midnight every Monday and Thursday. I asked if I could reasonably expect my partner to meet at my home half the time. The prof ended up allowing a choice of a complete project done individually or with a partner (same length, scope, etc.), and I was the only one to do the whole thing alone. I still don’t understand what he thought was the benefit of making us work with partners for that project (a presentation for a philosophy class).</p>
<p>oh group projects are great…if you could actually pick who you worked with.<br>
I completely agree with teachers when they say that they’ll give the same grade to everyone who worked on the project since the students chose their own groups. This is fine, because if you made a bad choice picking a group member, that is your fault.
but i’ve had plenty of situations when I’ve been put in groups with people who are complete slackers. I completely hate it. The problem isn’t getting along with the other people, it’s that when it comes to the actual work either 1) they just don’t do any or 2) if you divide the work, their’s might be inadequate, and I don’t want to get a low grade because of it, so I end up redoing everything they did
Also, I think it’s irrational for a high school teacher to pair students up and then not give them any class time to do a project. I was a freshman in a sophomore class, and I got paired with a sophomore guy I barely knew, and we were both on sports teams and couldnt meet after school. It became a hassle to try to meet up during the one weekend we had to do the project, because he had a track meet and I had a family thing going on.</p>
<p>My recent experiences with them in college have been positive. In my debate class, my first debate partner was a girl who was really serious about the class like me, and a do things ahead of time control freak like me. We clashed some on strategy, presentation, etc but were able every time to come to a mutual agreement that was better than either of our original positions.</p>
<p>My 2nd partner was a deadbeat guy who wouldn’t even meet with me until right before the debate. I did all the research, and then during the debate I handled all of our opponents’ cross ex, and did all of my team’s cross ex. He only talked during his required time, and even then, with me passing him note cards and whispering in his ear.</p>
<p>I got a higher grade with the 2nd partner than the first, because my prof could tell how much effort I’d put in. The problem arises when a prof insists on issuing group grades rather than individual ones, giving you a bogus speech about teamwork. A fair prof won’t penalize the whole group for one individual’s shortcomings.</p>
<p>Personally I hate group projects.
Teachers give us too them as a “treat” because they think we like working with our friends or other people because it’s easier.
This may be true for some people, but for ones that are trying hard to get into a top school, this isn’t the case.
Because you have to all work together, and a lot of times the other members really don’t want to make an outstanding project.
And you can just do the whole thing yourself…
I know I’m not a parent, but anyways I don’t think group projects are fair.</p>
<p>Update:
Wow, looks the the majority of folks on this board (parents and students) are NOT fans of group projects. Count me in.
As I mentioned in an earlier post, our son did contact his professor before grades were assigned. The prof told him to submit the paper again, with notes on who did what, and said he would consider this info in assigning the grades. Sounds fair. Well, my son contacted the “project manager” to get a final soft copy of the project - and she didn’t respond. So he was left with sending the prof only his submissions. Bottom line, the prof gave some consideration but the poor “group” grade still ended up having a rather big impact on his final grade.
Good news is that he learned he needs to step up and take charge next time this happens. Plus the lower grade didn’t affect his scholarship because he did very well in his other classes. Ironic part is that he got the lowest grade this semester in what he considered to be one of his “easiest” classes. Live and learn.
Thanks everyone for the feedback. I got some very helpful tips here that I passed on. Given his major, I think he’ll be facing more of these group exercises in his future…</p>
<p>Toneranger, let me guess–was the class econ 002 or 004? If not, I will be taking econ 002 next year and such project is also a part of the grade. I actually considered dropping the class to avoid the headache.</p>
<p>I think group projects are very fair. Group grades however are not.</p>
<p>while group projects provide neccessary skills they can be very challenging, especially for “A type students” hopfully they learn something.</p>
<p>Washdad- love your comment about finding “organized girl” My D says find guy that follows directions:D</p>